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AUFZUGEN / LIFTS

Diese ist / This is : http://www.berklix.org/holz/lift/

Oben An / Up To : http://www.berklix.org/holz/


Hi Residents / Anwohnern
Please pass on / Bitte weiterleiten.

D: Ich bin gerade zuruck nach Muenchen gekommen & MHG Brief 19.07
   gelesen, (29.07 an uns geliefert), wegen. Aufzug/Lift ersetzung, 
   dass verlangt Antwort bei Fri. 16. 08.  Wir haben MHG geschrieben, wir 
   brauchen ein bischen mehr Zeit zu denken, Sommerferien- und Urlaubsbedingt.

E: I just returned to Muenchen & read MHG letter of 19.07 delivered 29.07
   which asks for a signed response by Friday 16 Aug re. lifts replacement
   We wrote MHG we need a bit more time to think, re that & holiday period etc.


D: Ich habe Fragen & Vorschlage daran, aber noch nicht Zeit mit MHG
   & Nachbarn zu diskutieren & fragen. Sie auch moeglich ?

E: I have questions & suggestions, which I've had no time to
   ask, or discuss with MHG or other residents yet. Maybe you too ?


D: Ich vorschlage nicht in Eile zu unterschreiben, aber erst ideen diskutieren,
   es ist Urlaub Donnerstag & schoen wetter.  Vorschlage fuer eine Zeit ?
   oder ideen an diese Liste <holz@berklix....>

E: I suggest don't rush to sign those forms just yet, It's a holiday
   Thursday, & nice weather to discuss tomorrow.  Suggestions for a time ?
   Or send your ideas to our mail list <holz@berklix....>

Ideas / Ideen : http://www.berklix.org/holz/lift/

D: Entschuldigen dass diess unten meist nicht in Deutsch ueberstezt ist, (Ausser Schraeg-Schrift) Kein Zeit !, aber wir koennen im mail liste oder zusammen in Deutsch oder English reden.
E: Sorry this has mostly not been translated to German, no time, we can discuss on mail list or in person in German or English.

This is to stimulate:

Genuine Improvements Tenants Could Pay Increased Rent For,
(But We Probably Will Not Get Most Unless We Discuss & Ask For Them)
Echte Verbesserungs Vorschlagen :
  • Mezzanine lifts with 2 Doors 2 Turen fü Zwischen- geschoss for some lifts.
    • ( Doors both sides for split level floors, as seen from same lift manufacturer since 1985 between Tengelmann & garage ) Wie zwischen Tengelman & tiefgarage
    • All residents & visitors see our non mezzanine lifts (where you have to walk up half a floor) as cheap & hard on disabled people (wheel- chairs, crutches, bad backs etc), & moving baby prams, furniture & shopping, suitcases, beer crates, dish washers, washing machine, big TVs etc.
    • Lift replacement time is ideal to cut a new door in concrete, opposite entrance door.
    • Optionally also cut 2 new doors to cellar levels. (Once a lift with metal doors is installed at real ground level, it may not cost so much more to cut 2 more, this is ideal time for it.
  • Top 4th Floor: Hoechste 4. Etage
    Is it planned to extend lift ? Or will it still end at 3rd ?
    Modern lifts no longer require head- room for winding wheels above the lift with cable connecting to roof; eg some lifts now have hydraulic cylinders at sides, with a wheel above cylinder, & cable connected to floor, see improved design on some MVV etc. Presumably others could have wheels each side at top of shaft, with a loop over, connected to base of lift.
  • If not Mezzanine, fit a
    Deeper Tiefer lift
    Not smaller as when lift at Holz- str 19 was replaced.
    • Example lift at Holz- Str 27 d: (Gall & Heckelmann, 450 Kg / 6 Personen, Baujahr 1984, Fabr 8178307.) Measurements suggest ~ 32 cm at back of shaft is unused, after allowing same space as at front for clearances. More space for big wheel- chairs, baby prams, furniture.
    • (Some wheel- chairs can be big, with foot rests in front & or small wheels behind &/or motorised. Winzerer-str (cheap rental block) lift in 1985 had lifts better than ours, window & back doors un-lockable by haus-meister, (to prevent overcrowding by excess humans), to take occasional larger furniture etc. Not a new idea even in 1985 !
    • E: A deeper lift would take more furniture, less up stair by hand by removal firms, less damage to walls.
      D: Tiefer lfit (wegen 2 Turen) wuerd grosse meuble stuck nehmen, mit als neben effekt, weniger beschaedigung an Treppe Wanden.
  • More Air ! Mehr Luft !
    Air Slots: Present lift has 4 x 3 x 19cm long x ~ 2.5 mm wide. No air moves.
    What improvement will the new one offer ? Old one is inadequate to even remove smells, & if trapped in lift with up to 6 people the oxygen would run out fast. (English lifts decades back already had a trap door in roof to escape by & or get more air if trapped.) (Air fans will fail if power fails).
  • Softer Doors Sanfter Turen:
    Will the doors have decent pressure sensitive doors along entire door length ? Not our present painful doors, & not the dumb 2 hole system with 2 red light beams, which is cheap & works but poorly for vertical humans with oblique legs in office blocks, & worse for fragile home equipment & shopping & children.
    "Sicherheitsturen" Im brief, also wermutlich Ja smiley face icon - aber Welche Art ?
    See New lift
  • Emergency number "Notrufsysteme"
    What better contact will we have in an emergency than now ? None at present except orange button & loud- speaker.
    See New lift
Money / Geld
  • Costs attributable for _genuine_ improvements can be contributed to by tenants.
  • What Improvements will be purchased with our extra rent money ?
    Welche Verbesserungen wuerde mit unser extra miet Geld gekauft ?
  • A correct percentage of costs for mere replacement due to fair wear & tear should be paid from owner's accumulated reserves on rent charged since 1985.
    • Emergency contact details & TUV Stempel safety certificate were removed from lift months back, suggesting lift replacement may be largely to reduce maintenance cost after usage for 28 years; which is not "Improvement" chargeable to tenants but replacement repair chargeable to owners IMO.
    • ( Maybe the old lift maintenance company put in a higher bid to continue maintaining old lifts, which MHG may have declined, triggering replacement rather than maintenance ? )
  • Charging 76% of lift replacement cost to tenants as `Improvement' seems High:
    Warum sollen mieter 76% zahlen ? Meist ist ersetzungen arbeit, nicht wirklich verbesserungen ?
    • Surely most of the cost should have been covered by the normal sinking fund for normal building maintenance. Why after 28 years rent since 1985 is so little money there for Instandsetzung ?
    • Have owners perhaps mistakenly withdrawn too much income, & not set aside enough rent over the years for eventual repairs, (which is their responsibility, not tenants) ?
    • Or did garage repair cost so much ? That derived from poor initial construction practice , & concrete corrosion inc. lack of tar round drains that was obvious but left to get worse for years. Not tenants' fault if the Instandsetzung fund ran low paying for repairs.
    • I don't know if the books have been inspected by tenants to look at general maintenance costs ? I've been here since '85 but not my speciality, I'm an Engineer
    • Tenants should contribute to components of cost that are genuine improvement, but not costs of replacement necessitated by normal usage. How much if any of 76% cost proposed will be to pay for genuine improvements as above ? Not just replacement/repair ?
    • That New lifts will be quieter (by numerically how much is not stated in db ?) & more energy efficient, may be misleading. It's probably impossible to buy new lifts of poor 1984 quality now. Claiming to replace the lifts as 76% tenant chargeable "Improvement" does not seem very plausible.
Conclusion:
  • If we are to have new lifts we should ensure we get worthwhile improvements, not replacement lifts merely quieter & energy saving but lacking other Features.
  • Will proposed extra rent money Actually buy Improvements ? Which ? or is this extra rent mostly for replacement cheap lifts with minimal improvements that should be paid for by owners, not tenants ?
Any Other Questions Observations Notes You Have ?
Andere Fragen / Bemerkungen / Info Sie Haben ?
Post to the mail list quickly please, as we don't want to inconvenience MHG by causing delay, but it would be nice to assemble a list of questions in German to ask MHG.

Several people answered quickly within hours to mail list, & to door, & by phone, with questions & facts & opinions. Thanks to all! , A few notes from that:
  • A new lift can be seen at Holz-Str 19.
    • To access if no key, go through garage level 2.
    • Made by Kone - German Site It has an EcoDisc badge (FWIW?).

  • Apparently cutting concrete (eg as would be needed for a door) tends to cost about 1000 Euro per metre.
  • It would be necessary to check the Static, (I guess remaining concrete would be strong enough ? but I'm an electronic turned computer engineer, not a structural engineer).
  • Probably a lot of the steel is already ordered. (maybe no big deal, most or all still needed ?, just more for 2nd door etc ? Biggest hindrance I guess might be to get planners to rethink, but if planners happen to have not asked users who will Pay, till a project is completely planned & finalised, that would be planners' failure, not our problem)

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