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Walkers & Hikers Groups Left half of British Union Jack flag + Right half of German flag

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We Don't Divert &/or Stop For Toilets For Individuals

  • Sensible people shouldn't need to be told, but you'd be surprised how many forget & ignore:
  • There are no toilets in the country.
  • If you have a week bladder, an S Bahn trip + a 3 hour non stop walk in the winter country without a leaf on a bush might be a problem, especially to females.
  • Go at home before leaving
  • Or arrive early & pay a few cents at eg the clean one at Munich central station. Before coming to departure point, from the S Bahn its its on the final top underground level, on the right, just before walking up final steps to meeting point. Or a McDonalds or similar.
  • After the train arrives, before the walk starts, there's often no toilet, or its locked, or closed for vandalism, or frozen
  • A single toilet, if it exists, with a queue of females wanting to use it before we start a walk, really delays & irritates the rest of the group.
  • There's no leaves for camouflage in the winter, just bare trees, turns in the trail & dips in the ground.
  • We do Not divert group past cafes for one or two to go the toilet while we all wait, then other walkers get cold, diverted to also go in, sit down, order, wait, consume, ask to pay, wait to pay. Don't try to make us all wait. We will not. You wait till we stop, or until landscape gives you camouflage ! or until pub in middle of walk, if pub not scheduled at end. Or tell leader you are leaving the walk, (so we dont assume youve slipped & can't walk & lie frozen behind us), & find your own way to a cafe & then home. Else do not come with us.
  • We do not stop the group for a stream of periodic individuals diving off in bushes, (we might or not slow down, but only if the group is small).
    • You may have to Run to catch up, or walk very fast for a long time, risking loosing us at junctions
    • Bring your mobile phone & make a courtesy call to tell leader you've dropped off the walk.
    • Bring your own compass & map, monitor where you are, & find your own way home !
    • If you lose yourself, blame yourself, not us.
  • Plan ahead, wait, synchronise together to minimise stops or diving in bushes..
  • If you must dive in bushes, consider asking organiser when next stop will be, & wait to drop back till just before the rest of us are about to stop for a drink from water bottle & or snack.
  • Be considerate ! If you see someone dive off in the bushes, & you want to too, if person is of same sex/gender as you, dive off the same side left or right, & leave the other right or left free for those of the other sex/gender, don't occupy both sides. - You think that too is obvious & shouldn't need to be mentioned ? Not so, you'd be surprised !.
  • If people request/ remind leader in advance : occasional brief halt[s] to drink water/ snack/ admire view may be chosen to also be at places where cover is good in two directions left & right, & leader or other loud voice could call out eg: men left & women right, but most (but not all) people are too sensible to need that.

Walk organisers are Not paid

Organisers are out for a decent walk & exercise, at the speed & format They announced, Ideas can be welcome, but remember you are a guest on the organiser's walk they bothered to organise, not a paying customer entitled to anything.) The more people in the group, the less flexibility is possible, Don't support a moaner, explain to a moaner why they should comply with group: We don't have enough organisers, Moaners discourage organisers from organising, We want more organisers for more walks. Moaners degrade walks, please tell them to put up, or shut up: Moaners should be told to either commit to organising more walks to their preference, or quit complaining & don't come again.

Group Tickets for walks, hikes & Bike trips.

All people should best individually themselves write their own name on back of group tickets, to reduce chance of misunderstanding who has to pay who how much. Legibly in block capitals. This helps ticket buyers owed money, stops occasional free loaders, & assures people who don't want to be fined if problems or misunderstandings over who & how many on which ticket.

The final beer garden/ cafe/ whatever (if designated), at end of a trip is part of trip. Is Not "Freiwillig" or individual choice, but an expected included part of trip schedule. You can't individually clear off early & rush back to Munich, except if you bought a single ticket, or can individually arrange to swap seats between group tickets so as to allow one group ticket to leave early, with Full number of passengers, and Not using excess tickets & Not leave anyone stranded). Group ticket holders must declare themselves to Organiser as fully passenger-ed, if they want to leave early.

Not paying for a ticket, or abandoning someone on a group ticket, will most likely get you banned from trip mail lists.

At June 2013 still, group Gesamt- netz tickets from some machines are pre printed with date, do not need to be inserted in ticket stamping (what MVV call cancelling) machines & are slightly too wide to fit to be stamped; whereas some other tickets Do still need to be stamped.

  MVV - Innen- Raum Ticket Syndrome

Those prior possessing MVV Innen- Raum tickets are often a source of confusion & delay: they tend to give no firm loud simple Yes or No to the vital question "Will you join our Gesamt- Netz group ticket ?", & to delay, wandering round asking how many on which ticket. Innen- Raum Ticket holders need to turn up Early, (especially if train departs soon after meeting time), for they need maximum time to organise themselves, & Not spread confusion to the rest "Did they [finally] commit to our ticket ? Are we free to sell seat to someone else to reduce costs ?"

Garmisch Hikes

One of our Organisers is resident in Partenkirchen, ideal for Garmisch Hikes: Nigel Mellersh He can be emailed on Organisers Mail List, or phoned on +49 8821 9646789. His notes inset:
Below I`ve listed a few possible easy mountain walks which generally take about 2 to 3 hours each. The first two involve going through the Partnachklamm, the third through the Hllentalklamm. The fourth starts in Partenkirchen and goes a short way up the âWankâ.

For the Partnachklamm there is a paying car-park at the Olympia-Ski stadium or otherwise walk about 20 minutes from the station at GaPa, if coming by train.

For the Hllentalklamm there is no parking at Hammersbach, as far as I know â the nearest car park seems to be at the bottom of the Kreuzeckbahn/Alpsitzbahn cable car, then walk about 15 minutes. If coming by train, Hammersbach is 3 stops on the Zugspitzbahn from GaPa station and is included in the âBayern-Ticketâ.

For the walk from Partenkirchen, The nearest parking could be at the bottom of the Wankbahn cable-car or at âAm Gipsbruchâ. If coming by train, it`s about a 15 minute walk from the station to Partenkirchen, which you did recently 2019-09-12 in reverse from the Indian restaurant.

Walk up through the Partnachklamm from the olympic ski-stadium at the end of Partenkirchen, turn left at the end up to Graseck, then right up to Eckbauer. Either take the cable-car (Eckbauerbahn) or walk back down. Refreshments should be available at Graseck and Eckbauer (nice view of the mountains from Eckbauer).

Walk up through the Partnachklamm from the ski-stadium at the end of Partenkirchen, turn right at the end to Partnachalm and Kochelbergalm to return via Hausberg. Refreshments should be available at the Partnachalm and the Kochelbergalm.

Leaving from Hammersbach, walk about 1 hour to the entrance of the Hllentalklamm and go through in about 25 minutes. From the end of the gorge, there is the option of continuing about another 40 minutes up to the Hllentalangerhtte. Refreshments should be available at the Einganghtte Hllental and at the Hllentalangerhtte.

Walk from Partenkirchen up to the new Hacker-Pschorr bridge, then to the Tannenhtte and either return down to Partenkirchen or go across to the middle station of the Wankbahn cable-car to ride up to the summit and back. Refreshments should be available at the Tannenhtte and other places.

For more strenuous. : going up the Wank by another gentler but longer route via the Esterbergalm (refreshments should be available), or alternatively doing an old favourite of mine, namely Herzogstand-Heimgarten from Walchensee.

you could leave Munich by car at e.g. 9:00 to arrive here at about 10:30 (there will be probably be a traffic-jam at the end of the Garmischer autobahn on Sunday, particularly if it`s a nice, sunny day). If coming by train, there are trains leaving at 9:13, 9:32 or 10:32, arriving respectively at 10:24, 10:54 and 11:54, all of which would be valid for a âRegio-Ticket Werdenfelsâ at 22â plus 7â for each extra person or a âBayern-Ticketâ at 25â plus 7â extra for each person up to 5 persons.

Indians At End Of Hikes

  BRB (Ex BOB) Group Tickets - If 6 people, Pay A Bit More To Buy Flexibility

  • For 2 Euro more per person, buy the flexibility of split return times:
  • Prices @ 2017-04-15:
      • BRB-MVV-Ticket: Single 23 Euro. Group up to 5, 35 Euro.
        6 people @ 70 - 58 / 6 = 2 Euro per head extra.
      • "Guten Tag" (includes BRB, parts of SOB), but not MVV) 21 Euro + [0-4] x 6 +
      • Oberland-Ticket 19 Euro single. No group. Just BRB, not MVV
      • Bayern, BRB, RE, RB, ALEX, BLB, S-Bahn) 25 + [0-4] x 6 + 2
    • www . bahn . de / p / view / angebot / regio / regionale - tickets / bayern / bayernticket . shtml
      25 Euro + [0-4] x 6 Euro Includes BRB & MVV.
    • (Both BRB & DB charge 2 Euro extra to buy from a human at ticket office. Probably if you buy the tickets from a machine, it`s the same price as on the internet.)
  • Why Do It:
    • Groups sometimes seperate on mountain (some prefer a longer route, extra components on top, others may want to wimp out & go down early.
    • Usually Some want to stop for a beer & restaurant at the lake, some want to rush back to Munich .... & they all try to persuade each other to do what others don't want to do, annoying for all, doubly so for group leader !
    • Multiple Group tickets removes probability of agravation at end of day.
    • Buying a single ticket is a Bad Idea.
    • Train from Tegernsee: Often a choice of standing packed in a sweaty smelly train for an hour, or travel 2 or more hours later after a leisurely hang around at the lake then restaurant meal, cos crowds heading back on trains last for hours till Tegernsee empties.
    • With 3 on each sub group we have easily split before, with capability for further people to change their mind at the last minute.
    • Pass the tip, no matter which walking group you go with smiley face icon
    • leaders can consider discussing before/ during ascent/ descent, (but don't distribute tickets to those who may rush ahead, either on Mountain or back to Munich, or to the slowest, choose trustworthy middle rankers!).
    • PS: Tickets valid for day of stamping (03:00 if trains then), Not till 24 hours later same time next day.

No Smokers - Tobacco Smoke Avoidance

Take the opportunity to walk with Non Smokers. All regular walkers are now non smokers, & pretty much all less regular & occasional walkers too. If you are a smoker Please don't smoke on the walk; if you have some sudden unexpected nicotine addiction, stay at the back & well down wind & Please ensure your smoke does Not blow on the rest who came for Clean Air, not a cancerous dead smell. Do Not take your last drag before jumping on a train then exhaling death breath & emitting from clothes, hair & skin too. A smoker might assert walker's sweat smells too, but that is not gratuitous & carcinogenic from drug addiction.

Numerous walkers & leaders dislike tobacco smoke to varying degrees. Realise this walk group has British & Americans , as well as Germans & others, & British, & Americans smoke less than British (probably) & British smoke less than Germans (certainly!) so realise if you'r a local smoker & You don't think your problem is so bad, realise you will Not be welcome, unless you give up smoking from long before you meet us (the smell sticks to breath clothes & air - we came for fresh air), till after you leave us.

Walk leader Julian is allergic to & detests tobacco smoke, do not come on his walks if you smoke.

A German speaking group Nicht Raucher Initiative Muenchen Also does mountain walks

Equipment: Spikes, Grodeln

Bring a map, compass, & learn to use them. Bring water & snacks. Bring waterproofs if dodgy weather. Wear the right shoes or boots. We sent home one clown who came in high heels for a country walk. No we don't stick to roads. Yes is IS muddy in the country. Yes we do walk in mud, though we prefer to keep dry. Yes this organiser has taken off boots & socks & waded up to mid knee after heavy rain blocked a route. Yes a bit of string in a pocket might be a good idea. We've seen a walking boot delaminate at the sole.

If a mountain hike, Consider sticks, maybe a torch in winter, maybe a lightweight plasticised foil thermal insulating rescue sheet. Pack a couple of magnesium tablet: ever tried a high mountain with a fellow hiker who has cramp in his leg[s] ? Pack a couple of glucose tablets, some people run out of energy (& heat) faster than others.


Other Groups

Some hikes & walks - Dates & Routes

Not all are listed, though more likely if Julian was organiser, or if the walk was memorable for some reason.

  •   2004 05 20 En route up to Herzogstand
    2004 05 20 Herzogstand

  •   2007 02 11 fackel richard
    2007 02 11 Burning Torch Night Walk

  •   2008 02 24 wolfratshausen to Schäftlarn
    2008 02 24 Wolfratshausen -> Schäftlarn

  •   2008 03 30 Richard's walk
    2008 03 30

  •   2008 05 25 Jochberg to Walchensee
    2008 05 25 Jochberg -> Walchensee

  •   2008 08 03 Hoellental
  •   2008 10 05 Schliersee -> Tegernsee
  •   2008 10 12 Tegernsee
  •   2009-07-26 Mountain hike Schliersee -> Tegernsee
  •   2009-07-26 Richard brisk 12Km country walk
  •   2009-08-08 Bike ride Paul Julian Ute + ? 12km Olympiaeinkaufszentrum -> Karlsfelder See
  •   2009-08-16 Richard 12km brisk walk
  •   2009-09-27 Richard 12km brisk walk
  •   2009-09-27 Waltraud's hike Saulgrub
  •   2009-10-04 Mountain Hike Rotwand
  •   2009-10-11 Brisk Walk with Richard
  •   2009-10-18 Hike, Herzogstand + Heimgarten with Nigel Herzogstand + Heimgarten
  •   2009-11-15 Nigel Fast walk
  •   2009-11-22 Nigel + Irmgard Fast walk 15km
  •   2009-12-13 Nigel + Irmgard Fast walk 10 km Kirch- seeon -> Ebers- berg.

  •   2009 12 26 isar
    2009-12-26 Xmas Walk Nord- fried- hof -> Park -> Cafe Schwabing.

    Paul 2009 12 26 Boxing Day walk along River Isar to Pub with Beer Gardeners

  •   2009-12-30 Richard Brisk Walk
  •   2010-01-10 [Fast] Walk in snow Julian (Dieter has a blog here)
  •   2010-01-24 Fast walk Julian
  •   2010-01-31 Fast Snow Walk Julian
  • 2010-02-07 no walk

  •   2010 02 14 walk around grafing to ebersberg
    2010-02-14 Fast walk in the snow Julian led a Snow Walk starting Grafing Bahnhof, around, through Grafing, on to Ebers- berg.

  •   2010 02 21 Starnberg > Andechs > Herrsching
    2010-02-21 Fast walk. Julian led Starnberg > Andechs > Herrsching - Approx 21 km, arrived in dark maybe 19:00 or so.
    The leg to Herrsching was longer than normal, further North to road as path down to valley was too steep & icy.

  •   2010-02-28 Fast walk 20km Julian Holz Riegel Kreuth -> Schäftlarn -> Starnberg.

  •   2010-03-15 Walk Julian Wesling -> Starnberg
  • Sundry other walks not listed.

  •   2011-02-06 Wolfratshausen -> Starnberg

  •   landscape

  •   2013-01-20 Herrsching Andechs Herrsching Snow Walk

  •   2013-02-03 Starnberg to Andechs Snow walk

  • 2013-02-10 Wolfratshausen to Starnberg
    + loop S. round escarpment. Snow walk. 16.87 Km, 3h:13m (excluding stops); Average Speed (excluding stops) 5.2 km/h; Max Speed 6.7 km/h; Total Ascent 102m (including very steep uphill start !); Total Descent 146 metre.

  • 2013-02-24 Haupt- Bahn- Hof -> Isar -> Aumeister -> Freiheit ~ 13 km. 12:15 > ~ 16:30 Deduct a guessed 1 hour or 1:15 lunch, so 4 or 4.33 km/ hour. On slippery icy snow paths.

  • 2013-03-03 Starnberg -> Tutzing, lots of sun, but lots of icy snow.
    GPS Stats From Frank: Distance 12.17 km; Duration 2h:18m:35s; Average. Speed 5.3 km/h; Max. Speed 7.0 km/h; Total Ascent 99 m; Total Descent 86 m;

  • 2013 03 10 Hechendorf -> Andechs -> Herrsching
    picture of andechs GPS Stats & Pic. From Frank: Distance 14.16 km; Duration 2h:40m:31s; Average. Speed 5.3 km/h; Max. Speed 7.5 km/h; Total Ascent 188 m; Total Descent 178 m;

  • 2013-03-24 Hoell- riegels- Kreuth along Isar -> Sendlinger Tor (branches above water fall @ Flaucher still covered thick in frozen spray @ ~ 15:30 - A cold winter).

  • 2013-03-31 Fröttmaning U- Bahn - East - past Deutsches Theater - NE - E across A- bahn - Lottlisa- behling- weg - past 4 cone towers (rubbish works ?) - up to Wind turbine & down to same point - more East on Lottlisa- behling- weg - past mosque (Freimann Moschee) - South on Freisinger Land str - East into woods of Isar - South in Isar valley - To - Aumeister lunch - South in Englischer- Garten - past Hirschau (closed), Seehaus (open) - Past surfers on river back of the national art gallery - East to Isar South along Isar to Reichen- Bach- Bruecke & Fraunhofer- Str U Bahn. A cold walk ! Maybe 15 Km or more ? (felt like a long walk to us)

  • 2013-06-09 Höhen- Schäftlarn -> Wolfratshausen
    This walk was navigated with a Compass 1:50,000 map (after purchase coated in adhesive plastic, essential for this walk!) + on latter half, a walker's smart phone / GPS , providing localisation & perhaps more detail. Comparing the route the day after between Compass map & maps . google . com one can see Compass map is wrong here


    1. From South West end of Schäftlarn S- Bahn platform, a new route East to valley, crossing then joining Kloster- Str shortly before the Kloster,
    2. Down through the middle of beer garden at Kloster Schäftlarn to avoid traffic,
    3. Across the road bridge, to beer garden on right = South of road adjacent "Gasthaus Zum Brucken- Fischer", by river for a drink & to watch the swollen river. (Other pictures of river last week further downstream at Munich). Would have been nice to eat too, but a long way left to walk,
      One joked we could have lunch & take the bus back up the hill, Tempting smiley face icon .
    4. (We stopped short of 2nd bridge East across the Isar- Kanal).
    5. Return back West = left across bridge
    6. South South West along the raised embankment.
    7. A field away from the West side of river, path headed South South West;
    8. After field on right=West ended, continued South West, through forest,
    9. Across field to rivulet (direction South) under trees where path became water logged, boots & socks off, barefoot through clear water ~ 20cm above muddy rutted track;
    10. South West through 2nd longer field, it remained too wet, so before path slanted West into forest,
    11. Up hill North West on a minor track that shrank to a trickle of water on stones.
    12. To top of valley, left
    13. Section Uncertain needs checking.
      1. Along West South West, &
      2. Left = SW down a track turned out to be a dead end forestry track, it was too steep & too far in raw forest to consider going down.
      3. Back up again; Then left = North West,
      4. Turning Left = South West, perhaps on to Gregor Weg ?
      5. Then on some path (I can't see on map), Down to the river on a long oblique along the side of the hill,
      6. Path parallel to river, then became steep up hill steps.
      7. Thunder & lightning on the way up, then pouring rain, (we remembered the earlier joke. )
      8. Another forest track down, that degenerated to nothing but raw forest.
    14. Back to near river level, we found a path, no way to know Isar was near, (where I remembered a path should be), except that a GPS phone told us we were near the river (maybe we'd have heard or seen it if it hadn't been raining so hard).
    15. A long walk on path (first bit submerged again), later much of which had clearly been washed by River recently (river was a few metres adjacent, about 1 meter below path),
    16. At turn off right, uphill to Icking in pouring rain, two were tempted. Leader pulled out plastic encased map, but too wet to focus & no glasses, & knew the river route not the inland route, & we didn't know how far to Icking S- Bahn). GPS- phone map not consulted (owner had displaced contact lens from excess rain).
    17. Stopped briefly at Weir (with fish ladder on near = West side, & (un- noticed as so wet), Isar Canal starts on East side). Someone suggested we could cross & walk other side, but we did not as that would have been a much longer route (via Puppling, to a bridge to cross Isar, to get to Wolfratshausen on Loisach)
    18. South West to where, North of Pupplinger AU, the river Loisach on West joins river Isar on East.
    19. Stone path by S Bahn rail track, Saw a small less than 1 metre wide subsidence off rubble from rail track on to path (we travelled back along that track later),
    20. South Underneath modern concrete bridge of S- Bahn.
    21. South past raft launch point
    22. South past 2nd raft launch point
    23. South past pub Gruener Baum on right=West,
    24. Left=East Crossed green metal road bridge of Weidacher Haupt- Str
    25. At East bank, Immediately South along East bank of river Loisach,
    26. Past Bahn- Hof- Str bridge,
    27. Past car park (with fun fair in rain with no customers),
    28. In to adjacent pub with beer garden "Wirtshaus Flosserei" in, all of us soaked, for a well deserved hot meal.
    29. North then East on to Hammer- Schmied- Weg to Bahn- Hof
    The smart phone did not have GPS log enabled to tell us distance, but we guessed maybe a good 15 km + altitude.
    (If we'd taken up the earlier suggestion of lunch at "Gasthaus Zum Brucken- Fischer", we might have had another 80 minutes walk in the rain before arrival, if we hadn't cut short.)

  • 2013-04-28 Irmgard Schliersee - Oberleiten - Fisch-hausen and back to Schliersee, approx. 9 km

  • 2013-04-28 Birgit Röhrmoos to Mariabrunn & back for St George's day

  • 2013-05-12 Chris 12km or 18km to South

  • 2013-05-20 Chris 18km Fast

  • 2013-06-09 Julian Julian, Fast, to Wolfratshausen from some S Bahn

  • 2013-06-23 Cornelia Bayerische Zeller Hoehen Weg

  • 2013-06-30 Ken 10 - 12 km along the Auer Mühlbach

  • 2013-07-07 Cornelia, Fisch-Bach-Au

  • 2013-08-18 Schliersee to Tegernsee Hike
    Group tickets BRB 2 x 25 / 7 =~ 7.15 Euro.
    Map: "Alpen vereins karte 7/1 1:25 000, Tegernsee Schliersee"
    Organiser: Julian .
    1. SW to lake
    2. W. round lake
    3. Left=South,
    4. Past HVB back gate,
    5. Right=West, Up slope along contour of Freuden- Berg,
    6. Past Eis- Platz on right,
    7. Left=South along edge of rail cutting,
    8. Right=West Over BRB rail foot- bridge, (last look at lake view)
    9. Along Tegernseer Weg to T junction with Wester- Berg- Str,
    10. Here, (as last time with Omar & Co, seeking a direct route) We did this diversion, same as last time:
      • Left=South,
      • Right=West past building, into timber yard
      • Right=North through timber yard
      • pedestrian gate @ far end fortunately not locked
      • Through & left = NW on to Tegernseer Weg
    11. Next time (2013-10-27) we should go Right=North, briefly along Wester- Berg- Str,
    12. then veer left = NW on to Tegernseer Weg
    13. 2nd Left (on juntion offering 2 lefts), SW uphill along Breiten- bach- str (not flat along Tegern- seer- weg)
    14. Past small lake/pond on Right.
    15. past Krains- berg on left, not taking Left=SE turn AV W10.
    16. Continuing SW parallel to Breiten- bach stream, along Hennerer Str,
    17. Past Rodel Bahn on left.
    18. Up to Hennerer Car Park on left.
    19. Uphill NW Past car park on left
    20. The off road ascent started here.
    21. (The bergfex . de + david.f/2013-08-31 route diverges from the car park, they follow the valley SW, an easier lesser set of gradients then take Prinzenweg around Kreuzkopf (the other side of which was a problem heading to Kreuzberg Alm. (which they reckon takes an hour -proof of easier gradients that way))
    22. NW up, SW along contour, W, NW steeply up AV (Alpen Verein) Wander weg/Steig W9 through Schilchen- tal to Gindel- Alm- Schneid (which is a bit S & down from Gindel summit 1271m)
    23. ( The bergfex . de + david.f/2013-08-31 route passes here later coming from South. Then they go West flat to Neureuth,then down Wander weg N via Lieberhof to Tegernsee. )
    24. Choice of 2 (or 3 possibly?) Alms, Stopped for a drink on the Right uncrowded nice view of Schlier- see, Met an organiser of AV @ Alm going the other way, who said next Alm would be a lot more crowded (but he & Elena were thinking of Neureuth, the short way, too short, not the planned route smiley face icon )
    25. Drink @ Alm
    26. To avoid normal steep walk SW up bog-ish hill:
      • West a bit along AV N2
      • then up SE
      Flat SE to good view @ a cross with effigy of a man nailed up :-( Note this is Not Kreuz- berg, despite yet another cross littering the landscape.
    27. Down shallow then steep
      {** Diversion to try next time: Half way down the steep, & also at base before steep rise to Kreuz-berg hut, google maps satellite view shows 2 paths veers off to left = SE, which next time would seem to allow one to avoid surplus down then up past Kreuz-berg & down.
    28. SE Up steep path to Kreuz-berg with alm (didnt purchase, just sat on logs round the back (where no view of Schliersee))
    29. ( The bergfex . de + david.f/2013-08-31 route at this point is same path as ours, but opposite direction. )
    30. W,S,E down 4 wheel vehicle track
    31. Veer off right = South down steep field, off track, (harder on knees but quicker) rejoining same track (that headed E then SW) heading down SW at first T junction with Prinzen- Weg
    32. A sign there points SE, marked:
      • Henner 45 685
      • Schliersee 1 1/4 685
      The AV map shows it as W9.
    33. Maybe 20 metres SSW slightly down to next junction with footpath up SSE
    34. Signed in yellow background & black font:
      • Baum- Garten- Schneid 1444 1 1/4
        ueber Sag- Fleckl.
      • Rieder-stein 1207 2H
        ueber Baum- Garten- Schneid
      • Galaun 2 1/2
    35. 4 dropped out, (Un-related to next bit, just had enough ).
      They disappeared SSW down AV vehicle track N2.
    36. Problem Solved 2015-05-10
      We 3 (marked *) continued SSE up AV footpath N2 toward Kreuz- Berg- Koepfl
      • It curves right = SSW up then flat, (a steep drop to right, not for people with vertigo).
      • Then the path just seemed to end !
      • We couldn't figure where it had gone before, all seemed pretty much raw forest.
      • We turned back! So failed to reach Sag-Fleckl (Julian had planned after that to continue on to Baum- Garten- Schneid, then Rieder-stein as on a previous hike).
      • Julian had used it previously (with Omar & co. I recall ?), & we met other older hikers who reckoned they'd used it 20/30 times before & planned to go up where we'd just come back down, but the path just was invisible).
      • Looking at maps . google . com after did not help, as their pictures were oblique & were taken in summer, leaves on trees.
      • 2015-05-10 there was a path faintly discernable, & with LK confident where we going, we got through.
    37. We reverted to SSW down AV vehicle track N2.
    38. Left = SE, then SW along long boring wide stone vehicle track, over a kilometre below & past Rieder-stein (above on left)
    39. Up, S, E, S to Galaun in maybe 5 or 10 mins,
    40. Drink at Hut (nice view of S. end of Tegernsee lake) Drinks more expensive than Gindel- Alm- Schneid someone said.
    41. (Omitted to go up to Rieder-stein chapel.)
    42. Return West across small plateau, & first left, a slightly different way than up, not shown on AV map, but joining back to same boring stone road
    43. *** Back along same Boring road WNW, N past previously where we'd joined, West past Hubertus Huette along AV N2 parallel to Alp-bach stream. A giant long loop fit better for vehicles, not hikers who can also go up & down !
    44. Previous *** decision was discussed & agreed by all, but looking at map more since, it would have been 3 x shorter & more interesting had we gone North on AV T4 by Rieder-stein Holz, Auer-bauer AV T3, & would have emerged somewhat nearer Indian.
    45. Left = South to Indian meal outside @ See Str 7
    46. Leisurely stroll South + West down to lake & benches
    47. North along lake;
    48. East up to road
    49. North to train un-crowded both directions smiley face icon.
    I think there may be a bus back to Schliersee, if people did it by car, but if so not often, but for this one I prefer BRB not car. Other years (iwth Omar & Co) we've also come down much further SE, probably at Rottach, & taken a bus to Tegernsee.

    The bergfex . de + david.f/2013-08-31 route seems a somewhat shorter version of ours, particularly with our extras, & the up gradients seem gentler (from the map), bergfex . de route quotes stats: { 14.6 km Duration 3:00 Up 690m Down 742m Max. Height 1,324 m Min. 737 m } We didnt have GPS equipment with us to measure ours. The Duration 3h seems a lot less than we took on a steeper ascent & longer route on a hot day, but our real time perception also includes break times at peaks & Alms ! smiley face icon

  • 2013-08-31 River Walk Columbus Platz to Großhesselohe beer garden with Ken R.
    Announced as: This will be a walk of about 10 - 12 km along the Auer Mühlbach, beginning just south of Kolombus Platz and continuing along the shores of the Izar to Großhesselohe stopping for a drink, etc. probably at the Waldwärtschaft beergarden. We will meet at the Bushaltestelle just outside the western U-Bahn exit at Kolombus Platz on Humboldstraße at 2:30 Sunday the 1st of September. If you are arriving on the U-Bahn please take the Plarrnerstr. - Bus 58 Silberhornstraße exit. My cellphone number is ....
    Julian arrived by bike just after they'd left & raced round country on bike trying to find them, and joined at beer garden smiley face icon
  • Cornelia did an extra bonus walk back !

  • 2013-09-08 Bayrisch Zell, Helga H (leader)
    Announced as: Easy walk about 2 hours up , break at a nice panorama view cafe. Meeting 09.45 at Hauptbahnhof at the ticket counter for the BRB Bahn
    group, valley in background
    Picture is coming down after lunch, where we joined a road. left to right: Marion, Elke, Astrid, Helga H (leader), Stephanie, Cornelia, Birgit, Julian (behind camera). In the valley we split, 4 took the train, 4 of us walked to other side of valley, then SE back to Bayrisch Zell for ice cream & then the BRB train (full later, but no one standing in our part). Another walk where by chance Julian was only male & English, & all the rest female & German, though we chatted in both languages, so what's happened to all the men we wondered ? I've since been told the Denkmal schutz opening of monuments that day included rare opening of bomb shelters - Maybe real men were all down bomb shelters & inspecting ? -) . PS all non smokers again, as usual. Other larger higher quality pictures off line.

  • 2013-09-27 Holzkirchen Cornelia

  • 2013-10-13 - 2 walks !
    • Miesbach 09:10 Cornelia
    • Seefeld-Hechendorf.Herrsching-Andechs-Herrrsching : 12:00: Julian
      Walkers in front of Andechs monastery wall at top of hill.

  • 2013-10-27
    • Walk, Cornelia, 11km, 110m, + optional 8km & 300m to Fischbachau
    • Hike, Julian, Schliersee to Tegernsee via Sagfleckl (1154), & Gindelalmschneid (1330) & Indian restaurant @ lake Tegernsee.
      1. Same start as 2013-08-18 ...
      2. Up past Hennerer Car Park on left.
      3. Before the pub: Left continue following the valley, (Not right on W9 to Gindelschneid.
      4. South West up Stradel- Tal to junction.
      5. I turned right onto path W9, going N then NW anti clockwise on Prinzenweg, around Kreuzberg- Koepfel.
      6. To have allowed us to check the Puzzle from 2013-08-18, I could/should instead have gone left South then West to Sagfleckl, to allow us to then try N2 clockwise round Sagfleckl - So the mystery remains!
      7. After exiting Prinzenweg I took Omar & at least 1 other from the group 15 metres South West, to see the Puzzle from 2013-08-18, but we did not go up & try & solve it (As one of the group had gone ahead alone up toward Kreuzberg)
      8. 1st Mountain hut (Kreuzberg) was closed (as of 1st Oct, a man inside, but marked Private).
      9. 2nd (Gindelalm) 2 were open, ours (Southern one) was open for last w/end, & ran out of of dunkles beer, kaiser schmarn, some cakes etc.
      10. 3rd, Neureuther was open (as expected, near Tegernesee) but we didn't go in.
      11. The track (named as Winter track) I chose (largely 'cos it would deliver us near right part of Tegernsee for Indian + weather was beginning to fail) starting just short (East) Of Neureuther that heads South was steep wide fast, slippery grit, boring, obviously the supply route for vehicles, next time we'll probably try one just after (West) of Neureuther), though the contours show it (later them) as even steeper, some are real rock foot paths, not gravel vehicle track/road.

  • 2013-11-01 Friday! Hike, Cornelia, to Fischbachau via Elbach to Schwarzenberg. altitude: 440m (some steep parts)- Duration: 3-4 hours
  • 2014-02-23 Walk See- feld - Hechen- Dorf, to Herrsching to Andechs (lunch), to Herrsching led by Julian

  • 2014-03-09 Walk Hoehen- schaftlarn to Wolfrats- Hausen, about 16km, led by Julian, Frank probably has a GPS log.
  • Hersching to std. bench beyond & back via Lunch @ Andechs. Approx 15km

  • 2014-10-19 Ships screw (propeller) (Schiffs- schraube) Museums- insel, Ludwigs- bruecke. South To Gross Hesseloehe Beer Garden, North then East over Bridge & North past Menterschwaige Beer Garden, to Trudering U Bahn. (Route chose to avoiding striking S Bahns). Led by Julian

  • 2014-11-02 Starnberg to Herrsching with Julian, via meal at Andechs.
    Frank's smart phone informs: total 18.94 km, traveling 3:37 h, (5.2 km/hour) ascended 439 meters, descended 438 m, average temperature of 17, humidity 51% Torches were used for descent.

  • 2014-11-23 Organiser: Lisa

  • 2014-12-21 Herrsching - Andechs - Herrsching. Organiser: Julian

  • 2014-12-28 FRAUNHOFER Str up river to Gross- Hesseloehe- Isar- tal- bahn- hof (all beer 3.8 Euro - Ouch!), back by S-Bahn. Organiser: Julian

  • 2015-03-08: Steinebach, South side of Woerth- see, Schlagen- hofen, Breitbrunn, Rieder- Wald, Lochscwab, To Herrsching Organiser: Julian

  • 2015-02-15 Snow walk: Wolfratshausen to Starnberg 16.5 KM Organiser: Julian

  • Grafrath to Steinebach - Started as a mystery walk, as we took first S-Bahn that came, after massive S-Bahn distruption after the storm. Organiser: Julian

  • 2015-05-10 Schliersee to Tegernsee, Lisa + Julian, via Breitenbach, Gindelalmschneid, Kreuzberg, Route N2 to Sagfleckl (solving previous 2013-08-18 problem (if you have hikers with you who won't like a path that narrows to 1 boot width for a few metres (path needs repairing), with a side slope, better take other route W9 to Saglfleckl); Sharp Right = West = down (Not straight on South up to Baumgartenschneid); Joining the vehicle width gravel road (which if you go Right = initially NE goes the whole way to Tegernsee) instead turn Left = South (then West) past under (& North of) Riederstein ; (Theres then a choice of down right to Tegernsee in the shadows of mountain to the south);Go Left = South East Up (a short bit Up!) toward Galaun; Before Galaun Right = West; traversing about level toward Kl. Tegernseer Berg; Probably just before the point marked on Alpenverinskarte 7/1 map as '1106 metres', We took an (easy to miss!) steep path down off from the traverse (before the traverse heads up hill); Thereafter various short paths generally going North West. Arriving at a good Indian Restaurant Mirch Masala, Bahnhofstrasse 20, 300 metres East of main street by the lake. (so quiet) & not far South, & just a bit down from, the rail station.

  • Probably some missing, no time to search & add

  • 2016-03-28 Easter Monday Led by Irmgard: 11.00 am from the ships propeller at the Deutsches Museum. 13 km long, pace medium. south alongside the Isar, finish at Pullach. back by S-Bahn (S7).

  • 2016-10-24Up Tegel- Berg- Bahn, Down to Neu- Schwan- Stein Castle, Leader Lisa.
    09:00 I drove L & R from Giesing via Garmisch Autobahn to exit 9 Sindelsdorf (1 exit before Kochel), then West, (L chose route, better views than driving West toward Lindau then South), 120 km to cable car tegelbergbahn . de

    12.7 Euro up ticket only, to openstreetmap . org / node / 914332319 Gulasch soup & mineral water at top. Walked higher toward probably Rohrkopfen, till near it was clear the last bit would be more like mountain climbing. L & I turned back, joined R , back past cable car restaurant & mountain hut, L leading South West, mostly down hill, probably past Tegel- Berg- Kopf 1567 m. A bit rougher hike & bigger rock steps than some others, so R with shorter legs and a dodgy heel found those jarring. 2 or 3 U shape steel steps in the rock added to the interest.

    Maybe 3/4 down we passed some adventurous young chinese tourists heading up in tennis shoes, but too late in day, & they didnt know what was up there, so I told them a cafe in maybe an hour & a half or more, but best return down this route before dark. L later pointed out as they were going Up & my time estimate was from Down, & last lift down is 5ish, they better had to have turned round.

    After (guessing) 2 or 3 hours took us down to bridge of cast iron frame + heavy wood beams over the gorge South of the castle. The bridge Melanie & Phillip know, it was swarming with tourists.

    Left R by castle with bad heel to descend slower along road, & L & I walked most of another hour or so, fast & hot, back to car, hot boots off with relief! & drove back to pick up R , returned near car park in direction Munich; Paused hoping to see if sun would move round a mountain & illuminate Neuschwanstein as people with tripod cameras were hoping - it didn't.

    Perfect weather, we all 3 took lots of pics. Easiest way to take similar pictures is to park in valley under castle, walk up road (closed to cars) to iron bridge, then hike up stone path another 30 or 40 mins. Trees obscure view except on 3 to 5 or so bends near edge of cliff. A few tourists & tripods cluttered & cramped view on lowest bend.

    Good that L planned the hike as up via cable car though, it was enough.

    Passed a Greek Taverna on Right = South a few Km after leaving. Seemed too soon to stop. After that it seemed Bavarian.

    Stopped half way home in old walled town of Schongau

    Wandered round deciding where for dinner
    blaue - traube - schongau . de So called schnitzel (pork) was two very small diameter & really thick slices, most unusual & very greasy, the spaetzle was also soaked in butter oil Kase Spaetzle was OK, normal. Preceeded by Kurbis soup with oil Double espresso for driver.

    Next time in Schongau, we'd try the up market burger joint we first fancied: Bistro Ballenhaus

    D ropped off L then R at flats, & back home maybe 10 ish.

  • 2016-11-13 Pasing to Dachau, following river. Lisa & Julian.

  • 2017-04-12: Lisa & Julian. Schliersee to Tegernsee. Huberspitzalm, Gindelalm and Neureuth, avoiding Breitenbachstr, Baumgartenschneid and Riederstein
  • 2018-09-12 Lisa & Julian. Brecherspitz. : Spitzingsattel 1, 83727 Schliersee to Fischhausen-Neuhaus, 83727 Schliersee
    Left car in Neuhaus railway station car park, took bus (3.80 EU/person von 97029 Neuhaus Josefstal, nach 97065 Spitzing/Bleckstein) leaving from there {10:11, 11:11, 12:11, 12:19} going uphill to saddle point. About 9km long. Total 757m up and 812m down. google . de / maps /... Hike quite demanding, 2 or 3 sections with wire rope. Definately a boots hike. Sandals or soft treking shoes Not appropriate.
  • 2018-09-18 Taubenstein spitzingsee alpenbahnen Cable up, & down. Richard Nigel Julian
  • Various walks &/or hikes: see mail archive
  • 2018-11-26: Richard, Nigel, Lisa, Julian: Fuerstenfelbruck to Gaststatte Dampfschifffahrt in Grafrath
  • 2019-09-12: Walk up Mt Wank at Garmisch, Ticket convener: Lisa. Leader: Nigel. Others: Julian & Simon. Departure 09:32. Route: Up the steep direct way, Down on cable car 14.5 Euro. Indian meal outside at Taj Mahal.
  • 2019-09-22: Walk around foothills of Wank mountain at Garmisch, Ticket convener: Julian. Leader: Nigel. Others: Clive Dieter Ulrike. Ticket DB 25 EU (Alternative would have been Werdenfels @ 22 EU) + 3 x 7 EU = : EU 11.5 / head. Departure 09:32 Platform 28, Arrival 10:54. Indian meal outside at Taj Mahal.


Next Walks & Hikes

  • Future dates where/if known/ listed, are subject to weather & whim.
  • Future ideas:
    • www . europeanwaterfalls . com / waterfalls / laintal - wasserfall/In Jachenau there is a parking from which the trail starts heading north along the river Große Laine towards the Lainalm. The walk takes about 2 hours (5 kilometer) and has an ascend of 160 meter. The river Glasbach drops down, in three stages, over 40 meters with the highest single drop of 15 meter.
  • join to mail list to get announcements & updates.
  • Some hike ideas (from Lisa)
    • BRB + bus to Spitzingsee, walk to Rotewand and down to Bayrischzell.
    • Or BRB + bus to Spitzingsattel, walk up Bodenschneid and back to Spitzingsee, or (long walk) Tegernsee.
    • For a quick walk, Wallberg. Easiest to do with cars as the bus from Tegernsee doesn't run very often.
    • PS from Lisa re. 14 Nov 2017: all Gindelalms shut, but Neureuth open. One of the Gindelalms often opens even in the Winter, if good weather and weekend or bank holiday. the Indian restaurant in Hausham opposite the Bahnhof has closed down, but it was pretty average. The one in Tegernsee which was excellent looks closed down (black plastic covering the windows inside, but all the signs are still up and there was a delivery outside the door of what looked like a big new catering cooker, so fingers crossed they are just refurbing.
      Webcams: wallbergbahn . de / en / webcams/
      tegelbergbahn . de / webcams . html
  • If you want a walk/ hike next weeend, & the organisers haven't announced one yet, then Mail The Organisers to encourage them.

HBH: Default venue to start walks is often: 12:00 at Haupt Bahn Hof = Main Rail Station, pedestrian concourse, ( 1 metre above external pavement level), outside news agents "International Presse", in main hall (not Starnberger & not Holzkirchner Bahnhof) about 20 metres South into main building, from the North exit of Main rail station building where it joins taxi rank of Arnulf Str. Beyond end of (approx) platform 23.

  • Ski Trips In winter months.
  • Fackel Wanderung (Flaming Torch walk): Ask Richard/ Frank/ Julian.
  • As well as mountain, country, fast & long walks, & walks to a monastery etc, we also do shorter walks, some in country, some in town with a commentary on local history, & some eg from a U bahn in the English Garden (a park) to a Beer Garden.
  • Walks are announced to the mail list
  • Other sports (& indoor) events get announced on general mail lists.
  • Fancy a beer garden in Munich Friday/Saturday evening ?
  • Events are organised by unpaid unqualified volunteers.
    Participation is at your own risk and your own responsibility. We disclaim all responsibility. If you don't like that, do not come.
  • No children ! Adults only. Local laws says too much about burdens of responsibilities of organisers, events & kids. We're not paid, not motivated, & not interested to shoulder your family responsibilities. We also discuss adult topics & words that don't interest or not fit for hearing by kids, & we're not interested in remembering all day to avoid that. Don't bring kids.
  • Pictures from some walks.
  • Please volunteer to lead a walk;
    • You do Not need to be fast!
      If you're slower, that would suit some, particularly beginners & irregular walkers. We have some normal walk, & some fast & long walk leaders, but we're short of leaders for shorter & slower walks! (Perhaps because regulars speed up ?)
    • You do not Need to be able to use a compass !!!
      You can alone organise a walk, or share organising it with someone else. (eg sometimes one person is good at email, another is good with a compass). Just be absolutely sure which of you will do all of these: { Send email announcement; organise tickets; head counts; choose a route on map, considering distances & obstacles; navigate (being able to also use the sun if no cloud, or a compass, and Not relying just on GPS that could fail if eg battery fails, it gets dropped, rain or river water ingress-es etc); select plan & find the right stages en route, deal with emergencies, & capable to speak English & German (for walkers, farmers, ticket inspectors, travel disruption announcements) (not essential, just nice, as most of us can speak English & German, but remember we sometimes have people whose native language is neither English nor German) } .
    • Contact Author or Organisers.

The Fast, The Slow, Wimps, Moaners & The Clueless ;-)

Do Read & Listen to announcements. Those who ignore what's announced, make themselves a nuisance to organiser, group, & themselves ! Examples:

No Stops En Route - If announced

No cafe to rest/ sit/ warm/ shade/ cool/ eat/ drink, no railway to wimp out early, no village, no phone, no ice cream, no taxi, no toilet, no bar, no tap to fill water bottle. Just because some other organiser stop on route, does Not give you right to expect/ ask/ depend a stop on route ! If you want food en route, bring it from home, or buy from bakery train station before departure.

"Brisk Walk" - If announced

Brisk means faster than normal walking.
If you will not walk somewhat faster than normal, you will be a problem to yourself & the group. Brisk is not a relaxed ramble!

"Fast Walk" - If announced

  • Expect a fast or tiring long walk !
  • If you walk at a normal speed, you are Too Slow, do not come ! Expect to be left behind, to find your own way back. Bring your own map & compass to find your own way, alone.
  • We aim for a combination of eg fast 3 hours non stop, or minimum 15km to perhaps 20+ km.
    (I blush at defining "Fast" at these low numbers, as real long distance pilgrims going eg France to Spain used to walk maybe 25/ 30 km between stops ? & armies march/ yomp long distance with heavy loads on worse terrain than us leisure walkers)
  • Only about 15% of our walkers enjoy the Fast walks.
  • Normal walkers would be uncomfortably stressed/ the fast walks.
  • We occasionally throw in a few extra kilometres en route for a nicer view, a better route or a better pub, etc. It may be discussed en route, moaning is bad form.
  • Fast walk organisers & walkers will not change plans & slow speed for a slow walker.
  • Are we trying to scare off all but Fast people from walks announced as Fast ? Yes, Of course ! Best to have a matched group, not disparate speeds ! smiley face icon
  • Not all walks are Fast. Go on a normal one first if in doubt.


  • If you will not or can not walk according to the announcement, eg "Brisk", "Fast", "Non Stop" whatever ... ; Do not come; stay home, or go on or organise some other walk. Do not try to degrade a walk by slowing us down/ diverting or limiting us, or moaning.
  • Organiser's wishes out rank moaners by far. If in doubt do not come.
  • Become an Organiser if you want some other walk format. Organise, announce, plan, navigate, & lead a walk of your preference. Our mail lists, web etc available to help you organise walks, (In particular we could use more organisers of slow walks.)
  • Moaning About Speed & Wanting Rests.
    • Inexperienced people sometimes assert we should all go slower for some slow person, or we should divert, pause, or shorten route etc: No ! - Wrong !
      Organisers & fit regulars know from experience:
      • There's too often someone slow at the back, risking losing us, potentially slowing us down.
      • Slow people if accommodated, encourage more slow people, on that walk or future walks.
      • Walking groups that slowed a bit each week, have before ended up far too slow.
      • Fit walkers need & rely on leaders to keep the pace up.

The Clueless: Guess What ... What a surprise ;-)

  • Wimps: Realise There's Mud In The Country !
    Don't moan that you don't want to walk on mud ! We really dislike walking on roads. We walk on muddy paths & across fields without complaint, in preference to near smelly, noisey or busy roads, or even empty roads, as tarmac gets hard & boring.
    Note some organisers do walks in the park, there you may get tarmac.
    Some organisers also do mountain hikes too
    Some organisers also do skiing & water sports, & bike rides to beer gardens too.
    If you want tarmac in the country, do not join us, Use a path in a park in the city. We will Not all walk on tarmac because some wimp wants a quicker cleaner route to the luxury of a toilet in a cafe, or to take a short cut to a railway station to rush back to Munich. (We even had a fool in stiletto heels once, who got sent home at the start smiley face icon That's why this page sets out to help some people learn if there is a mis-match of expectations, Before they arrive in the field. )
  • No Toilets !

More Info

including outlines of different types of walks & hikes organised by different organisers, on the intro mail you automatically used to receive from majordomo (since replaced by Mailman after you joined mail list. That intro info is not available to non members.
Altitude & Temperature:
I have Not tried this [yet] Tip to stretch boots: Ice Fill a ziploc bag with water , ensure no air in bag, put bag in boot, put boot in freezer. Personally I'd think better to put bag in boot first before filling. One of several tips I saw on youtube Odd Links: Odds:
schwangau . de / aktivitaeten / wandern - und - klettern/


  • PS A clip from email: I need to lose some weight both off of me & out of my backpack. Hiking sticks can cushion steep descents & protect knee shock. They are a damn nuisance to other people walking nearby though, be aware, But very useful if someone in a group has some, in case someone does something to a knee & needs to borrow 1 stick.
  • See Also: ../ski/#knees & ../bike/#knees


All walks & hikes are at your own risk & liability. We are not trained or qualified. We do not charge or accept money, we owe you nothing in return. We are just a bunch of friends out for a walk. Do not bring kids, we refuse to accept moral or legal responsibilty for children. If you disagree, don't like, or don't accept this, we refuse you permission to join us.

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