2017-03-04 Delayed Mail
Apologies that a few
mail list postings were delivered late: Background:
- All Berklix mail lists were for years addressed as
LISTNAME@berklix.org, served by Majordomo on dual
servers so that if one server failed, the other would
automatically take over.
- Last year all lists migrated from Majordomo to
Mailman, initially on just a single server.
- People were supposed to post to all lists on that
single server as LISTNAME@mailman.berklix.org
- Mailman service was added to a 2nd server, which
was initially configured as a backup duplicate of first
- 2nd Mailman was not yet configured as half of a
cluster for resilient instant backup.
- 2nd mailman was turned off, while configuring
continued, but enabled to start on next reboot. in case
- Various incidents delayed completion of
reconfiguration for months
- A few people, over months mis-sent a few postings
to LISTNAME@berklix.org instead of
LISTNAME@mailman.berklix.org. Depending where the DNS
MX records pointed, some postings got processed
properly by the 1st Mailman, but some got latched by
the spare 2nd Mailman.
- An unexpected reboot of 2nd Mailman server
- The 2nd Mailman started, & delivered those
mails. (However, they were not automatically placed
visible in web archive of 1st Mailman).
- The 2nd Mailman has since been configured Off so a
further reboot should not incur a repeat.
- When reconfiguration is complete, the shorter
addresses of LISTNAME@berklix.org will be advertised
again, though the longer LISTNAME@mailman.berklix.org
will continue to work.
Between 16 Jun 2016 & Fri, 1 Jul 2016,
Bad Mail Providers rejected list mail from
servers including berklix
Bad Mail Providers
Some Good Mail
aol.com aol.de compuserve.com
hotmail.co.uk hotmail.com hotmail.de live.de msn.com
yahoo.co.uk yahoo.com yahoo.de yahoo.fr ymail.com
- Some other domains might also be served by these bad
- Bad Providers adopt stupidly simple spam detector
rules, such as "Individual mail we'll pass, but list
mail to more than eg 6 recipients may be spam so we block
unless we can force list operators (like Berklix) to accept
our half baked SPF & similar non standard
Test list mail from Berklix to your
- Don't send test mails as broadcast to main lists,
that annoys many other subscribers!
- Subscribe to list test.
Unfortunately, as there's usually very few addresses
subscribed at any one time to test (only people
currently testing), you may not trigger & detect
your bad provider's daft bulk spam detect rules by
mailing to test. Maybe later Berklix
will permanently subscribe a number of null addresses
to test@ to get round that idiot detector rule of Bad
amirhmoin.com arcor.de basler.de berklix.com berklix.org
chesalb.de cockcroft.de craincom.de de.astellas.com
debitel.net devnet.de epo.org esea.com eso.org eurocub.com
fcagney.com framepool.de freedict.de freenet.de genion.de
germanynet.de gmail.com gmx.at gmx.ch gmx.com gmx.de
gmx.net googlemail.com guru.de hypovereinsbank.de
theiet.org jekat.com kclalumni.net ltx.com
martin-collins.de metz.im mglug.de millard.ch
mittelalter.com mnet-online.de msd.de muc.mtu.de nexgo.de
o2.com oracle.com pacbell.net partner.bmw.de renemagic.com
rrison.de schaufenbuel.net semitest.de snake.de
soeldner-muenchen.de stuartdean.de t-online.de
t-systems.com talk21.com tele2.de thunell.com thunell.de
tuco.de verilab.com web.de wp.pl wyrmwood.com
Of course, there is a world of other good domains also not
Subscribers Of Berklix Lists, Your
Please phone or mail forward this to your Berklix friends on Bad Mail Providers, & tell them if they
haven't received Berklix list mail
with event announcement(s) etc recently, they're still
welcome to join us. They were not removed from Berklix lists. It's
that their Bad Mail Provider has
deliberately rejecting list mail, including from Berklix, flooding Berklix with
- Do not trust your mail provider, it deliberately
blocked mail, may still be doing so, or may resume
- Complain to your mail provider.
- Plan to Dump your mail provider.
- Ask friends which mail provider they use & why,
there's lots of Good Mail Providers,
many free, & also some paid with phone line etc.) any
not listed above as Bad Mail Providers
should be OK.
Get a 2nd mail provider.
- Notice the Bad Mail Providers
seem to be Microsoft owned, &/or USA based ?
- Some Bad Mail Providers have
been trouble before, trying to cut staff by forcing
their mail admin work (especially for such as list
mail) back on senders & attempting to coerce the
Internet to half baked non standards.
- Better subscribe via a Good Mail
Provider, perhaps owned, managed, run &
regulated in Europe, though most non MS owned, non
USA major providers, anywhere else in the world are
probably also OK.
- Subscribe your Good Mail Provider
- Unsubscribe your Bad Mail Provider
- Use (New)
- If You Remain Subscribed Via Your Bad Mail Provider, Berklix May
Forcibly Unsubscribe You Without Notice, to protect
list owners from reject noise from Bad
- If your provider is not listed above, your provider
is Good Mail Provider, Berklix has seen no
error report, no need to ask Berklix if you are
TECHNICAL (non technical people should skip this):
The Bad Mail Providers
were trying to
force List Servers
From: & Sender:
fields etc (& some wanted DMARC
& / or other things
aol DMARC Apr 22nd 2014 - DMARC policy to
Marked with S tags as it complains: Access denied by
DKIM (Domain-Keys Identified Mail);
SPF (Sender Policy Framework); DMARC
(Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting and
Early July, it seems some Bad Mail
Providers may be backing off again, bounce errors are
reducing; Probably some will try again, as some have tried
before for SPF, it's still worth dumping Bad
Mail Providers for Good Mail
models its headers on FreeBSD.Org (&/or other
independent internet developers).
not coerced by large American owned Bad Mail
Providers or Microsoft inspired (non!) "standards"
There have been articles before criticising MS backed
ideas such as SPF; Search for "
SPF considered Harmful" (Here's one at
does not waste time unpaid, pandering to requirements of Bad Mail Provider that often have also
evaded responsibility, failing to provide postmaster@ &
- Use: (New) Mailman
- Do Not ask humans to do your [un]subscribe work for
you for you.
Such requests are automatically filtered & silently
discarded unseen. We are all unpaid, & we waste no time
on the lazy who refuse to learn the [un]subscribe robot.
Most mail to most lists owners & (New) Mailman & owner
is still automatically silently discarded unseen!
Sorry, Unfortunate. Why it was necessary: Blame lazy
clueless mean people, inc. too many GEA
- Even though the newer (New) Mailman is
much easier to use than the older (Retired) Majordomo,
the filters remain, to protect list owners & server
administrators from some list members, mainly GEA who
deliberately wasted our time.
- (Retired) Majordomo
worked fine until Aug. - Sept. 2016 when it was phased out
for (New) Mailman
- Numerous non- technical people learnt & used (Retired) Majordomo
- A few people who genuinely admitted computers were not
their thing, got sympathy, & were administrator's
encouragement to provide more information & examples to
try to help.
- (Wouldn't be surprising if (Retired)
Majordomo@berklix might have been one of the best
documented instances of (Retired) Majordomo
on the web.)
- Many list specific pages under www.berklix.org also held
examples how to subscribe, unsubscribe etc. (info stripped
since arrival of (New)
- There were also several (Retired) Majordomo
specific help pages, extra info pages & links &
- Despite all that, some refused to read, learn, think,
& try experimenting with variants for success; They
falsely asserted (Retired) Majordomo
did not work, when it was them being lazy, thus ignorant
& failing to think. ).
- Don't believe those who tell you (Retired) Majordomo @
Berklix did not work!
Anecdote: One clown who demanded to waste
administrator's unpaid time, also claimed he was a
programmer! Assumption was he was a liar, bone idle, or
professional incompetent as (Retired) Majordomo
was working; & so many real programmers have learned (Retired) Majordomo
worldwide after a few goes, self included; including all on
some lists on ex (Retired) Majordomo
driven Berklix mail
lists & including other (Retired) Majordomo
servers elsewhere globally.
- (New) Mailman only
needed to replace (Retired) Majordomo
after server hardware failed & OS software upgrades
required new application software.
- Until then, administrator time needed to upgrade to (New) Mailman was
not available for years, as time that could have been used
for mutual benefit of all was persistently wasted by some
- Selfish lazy people, mostly GEA, refused to learn (Retired) Majordomo,
& persistently demanded administrator waste his time to
do their [un]subscribe change request work for them.
- More time was lost creating & linking ever more
detailed help, how to un-sub & sub, & how & why
to send ascii, & how to look at headers etc: (Basic education for the
computer illiterate) ... That many (not all) GEA people
remained forever too bone idle to use.
- Two thieves stole & replicated the main GEA list,
provoking a storm of duplicate reports, confusion, &
- Numerous people mistakenly wrote to whole lists (ins
some cases, lists of 250 people), asking for personal
subscription changes. That nudged some clueless people to
cascade "Me too" replies to list.
- Some malicious GEA members also encouraged an avalanche
of unsubscribe requests to whole list, instead of to
correct (Retired) Majordomo
unsubscribe request address.
- I don't recall any GEA list member protecting lists by
a short reply on list with a "Do It Yourself - How to Is in
Headers & Footers!". Though that has happily happened
on other Berklix lists & other lists on other
- More admin time was lost adding filters to protect
lists, list owners, & administrator from ignorant list
members inappropriate subscription request noise, &
personal noise from bone idle ingrates.
- Not one member of any list (GEA or other) Ever
requested the option to donate 10 Euros to a charity, to
pay to waste the administrator's time for their personal
- Mailman Owner Refuses To Waste Time
For Infinitely Lazy Thus Clueless People Who Meanly &
Stupidly Refuse To Learn (New) Mailman
- Some list members perpetrated dirtier tricks to disrupt
service, wasting yet more administrator time.
- Though the vast majority of people on many lists
behaved well, & lots already knew or learnt (Retired) Majordomo,
some GEA people - not all - were rotten apples, wasting
administrator time that could have instead gone to
upgrading to everyones benefit.
Above is why:
- Many list owners & (New) Mailman owner
addresses are now protected by automatic junk discard
- Most non technical eg social & sport lists are now
announcements only from listed event organisers, to protect
- Some announce only lists were given supplementary -chat
lists, to retain original open unmoderated scope, at risk
of inappropriate traffic from incompetents, each person can
make own choice whether just to join LIST-announce@ or also
- Technical lists (except announcements lists) remain
open to all members to post
- Though this above is less open than it used to be, when
every list used to open to be written by every member, it's
as open as possible.
- There are no human "moderators" aka censors on any
list. (The administrator loathes moderated lists
& forums & is Not a moderator/censor here or
elsewhere), he reads lists like you, after someone posts to
- All lists have filters to automaticly silently discard
un-allowed posts to list of form "unsubscribe me" , "change
my address" etc/. sub & unsubscribe via mail or web, do
it yourself properly like it tells you in headers & footers!.
If your post to a list fails, you were Not
- But list owners will also not see your post ( as
our (New) Mailman
usually silently discard as spam, any mail from any
address not listed as a member.
- So You Yourself Must Check you post with a 'From:'
header that matches you
subscribed address that (New) Mailman
- Don't forget the address (New) Mailman
send to may be forwarded via a series of your old
employers or providers.
- Your final receiving address - & who you Think
you are - is totally irrelevant ! Post only with a
'From:' address that matches the address (New) Mailman
mails to you with.
A few tips (lightly edited from a list post from open-britain.co.uk
- To make sure you receive future emails, it's a good
idea to 'whitelist' our sender email addresses, eg:
<LISTNAMEfirstname.lastname@example.org> , so that
they don't get wrongly tagged as spam by mistake.
- Here's how you can do that in some of the most popular
- 1 In Gmail, click on the downward facing arrow next to
the time of the email and add
LISTNAMEemail@example.com to your contacts list.
Alternatively, if one of our mails has been moved to the
spam folder, you can mark it "Not Spam" to whitelist
- 2 In Yahoo, look for the plus (+) sign next to
LISTNAMEfirstname.lastname@example.org at the top of this
message where it says who it is from. Click on it and
select Add To Contacts.
- 3 In Outlook, right click on this message and select
Junk Email. Then select Add Sender To Safe Senders
- If you use another email system, there should be a
similar option either to record
LISTNAMEemail@example.com as a 'safe' address or
to save the address to your address book (which achieves
the same thing).
For more tips see /help/majordomo/