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- Latest @ 2019-08-31: We now have an organiser in Garmisch- Partenkirchen: Nigel
Mellersh Contact him via Organisersmail list.
-
Ski Dates
- 2018: We're still skiing, but little time for web.
Julian Nigel Richard were in Ischgl, 24 & 25th Jan 2014.
( Total 679 km: Inc. a long diversion outward,
12:30-23:15 Munich, Garmisch, Ehrwald, Fern Pass Closed!,
Garmisch, Penzberg, Bad Tolz Kufstein, Innsbruck, Imst,
Kappl, Ischgl, & back direct via re-opened Fern
Pass
Next a bigger group will ski a few days in Mayrhofen
between Mon-Fri 12-16 Feb. We may not announce it to ski@
so ask on ski-org@.
- Join our ski Mail List for
announcements.
- 2016: we briefly announced we're skiing, & invited
skiers to contact organisers.
(author
only skied twice so far (shame on me!) but another past
organiser has
skied more,) We know our other past fellow skiers
who are still skiing too, but we're losing enthusiasm to
organise crowded weekends. We're moving to un-crowded mid
weeks with good snow when the weather is good:
Luxury Skiing
- 2010-2016 we've not published on web, just on Mail List.
- 2014-2015,
2013-2014, 2012-2013, 2009-2010, 2008-2009, 2007-2008, 2006-2007, 2005-2006, 2004-2005, 2003-2004, 2002-2003, 2001-2002, 2000-2001
- Pre 2000: Yes this author & other
organisers have been skiing &
organising from Munich since 1985 & before, but those
dates are long gone, melted in the snows & beers of
memory ;-)
- More Dates Welcome
- Group at Mayrhofen
(Finkenberg actually) Austria, 2003.
- Author
(click for
larger)
- Pics: 2001-01-21, 2003-01-19, 2008-01-20, Finken- berg Nord- hang- bahn, 2013 03 Kitzbuehel
panorama
- Why Ski With US ? :
No Membership Or Trip Fees, No early bus rush, No Smoke, No
Data Harvesting
- JOIN OUR FREE MAIL ANNOUNCEMENT
LISTS
- Mayrhofen Ski Trip
Information
- Kitzbuhel Ski Trip
Information
- Conventions EG Petrol, Credit Cards
etc
- Other Trips
- Ski Organisers
- Booking Form Removed from use
for now, just email us
- Resorts
- Repairs
-
Other Groups
- We are totally non commercial.
- You pay us Nothing ... except you pay drivers direct
for petrol, & you may pay a returnable deposit to
organiser to ensure you do turn up, & do not cause
trouble - like a bail bond ;-) .
- No joining fee, No annual membership, No booking
fee.
- Nothing for tuition (we only do a max. of 1 beginner's
trip per year, & that's free, except nice if you buy
advisers a drink if the advice seems useful.
- Nothing for equipment (hire or buy your own, not via
us, we'll just suggest where)
- We start from Munich later than busses !
- We leave resorts considerably later than busses, car
drivers don't tend to drink (this Author/driver strictly
so)
- We go by Multiple Private Cars. - Far More Flexible
Than Busses !
- Get out of bed Later no need for hellish early Germanicly inspired
06:30 bus departure of 30 to 50 people. No crowded
train. We don't rush to be first in the Autobahn Stau,
Leave the locals to compete at getting up so
desperately early they _might_ avoid the jams/ Staus.
Typically we meet at 08:00.
- We can go somewhere else if the snow report is
bad.
- We can go somewhere else Sunday if Saturday snow is
bad (obviously we think lift tickets, petrol,
time).
- We don't rush down the mountain to the bus to rush
back to Munich. Some of us stay in the Alps for a drink
(non alcoholic. for drivers) &/or bite to eat
after, or half way home, sometimes at favourite places
we've know for years.
- Sometimes (after we're all off the mountain) we
swap passengers between drivers
to better match those who want to lounge & those
who want to rush off.)
- If it suits both driver
& passengers, passengers may be may be dropped off
somewhere more mutually convenient at end of trip, but
normally we drop passengers back to Sat AM collection
point. No guarantees. Safety first. Anywhere on U-Bahn
net if desperate. Remember driver might be very tired
after a few hours driving after a day or 2's
skiing.
- No Data Harvesting
- We don't use web forums or hide behind aliases, no
pseudonyms, we use real human names & email
addresses.
- The Internet
domains we use are NOT owned by commercial
companies, will not be later sold to commercial
operators (as at least one other web forum listed here
was). Our domains do Not harvest your or our email or
web traffic or names. The author guarantees
that.
- We do Not try to recruit you by free restricted
membership, with more services for money. (Unlike at
least one site pointed to here).
- Non Smokers Only. Tobacco stinks worse in the cold air.
Having just non smokers make us more attractive to to other
non smokers. We've not had a smoker on a ski trip in a
decade, & don't need the smell or the the headache.
- We can all speak English & usually do. We use
singular Du not plural Sie if/when we speak German to each
other (unless > 2 people), no stiff linguistic baggage
;-)
- We're mostly not new in town, so we've learnt where to
ski. We know a Lot about the areas, & a lot of us have
own cars.
- Our purpose is to SKI, not to Booze (unlike some
group(s) ;-) Sure we drink, but not lots, that's best left
in Munich, when not driving skis or cars.
- You'll also find our other activity mail lists for
Snow Walks & Summer flat & mountain hikes walks, cycle trips,
& Err ;-) .. Drinking on Saturdays +
occasional bowling etc
( Web refs to some random resorts. Just random web refs so far.
)
Top Of Page
Various people have asked me about ski servicing, so here's my
notes: (PS I don't service other people's stuff, just my
own, these are DIY notes, I disclaim all liability, use your
own common sense to decide if you're skilled enough. )
I sharpen my own edges, & also fill my own grooves &
wax my own skis & installed own bindings, & repair own
edges, & have never paid a service shop. Various people
have asked over the years, so I've written notes below, &
am putting them for all at http://www.berklix.org/ski/#repair
Edges
- I have 2 tools: plastic handles with embedded coarse
scraper, but neither much good, & if your hand slips you
get a very nasty cut, so wear gloves. Not ski gloves cos
they're expensive, cheap gloves.
- I only use those old scraper tools occasionally in ski
resorts if desperate I usually wait for a warm day in Munich,
rotate sole side upward, then G clamp the skis to balcony
rail so they cant slip.
- Place wood blocks under skis to make them rest level on
table. Paperback books might do at a pinch in a ski resort,
but some very nasty little bits of sharp metal come off
edges, & you don't want them falling out of pages of a
book you may read in bed.
- I put a special brace over ski stoppers of turntable Look
N 77 bindings, to stop them protruding upward. For other
bindings I retract ski stoppers, then slip a loop of string
or wire over, to stop them protruding. A velcro strip is not
usually strong enough & may slip.
- Wear goggles to protect eyes from metal fragments.
- I then hand apply a power sander (band sander or
rectangular base sander, but not circular sander with a round
disc. & certainly avoid circular disc with a rounded
plate!
- Apply sander gently at right angles to the ski sole =
running surface. Needs a good eye & steady hand to
achieve 90 degrees & not wobble off. Don't press too
hard, or it may take too much off, or produce a rounded
edge.
- Remember not to protrude in on lower side, keep it
vertical, you are Not aiming for the sander to touch the
lower side of the ski, only the perhaps 3mm of vertical steel
& fractional support beyond, on the side of ski adjacent
to the sole, beyond that, the side wall takes a step in.
- You will need to machine more steel off toward the
middle, than on the ends.
- I had a pair of skis once where the steel edge had
completely torn out of the side of the ski, various shops
said it was irreparable, buy new! I scraped out the dirt,
polished off the rust, cut the end square, clamped the rail
in, drilled a hole through base & hole in rail &
through most of top of ski, cleaned the hole, cut the end of
a pointed nail, poured hot epoxy resin in hole, left to set
for 2 days, more hot resin between metal edge & ski
above, waited 2 days, removed clamps, cut off surplus nail,
metal file to polish base. I used it for many years
after.
Grooves
- Ski until no wax left on the base
- Scrape remnant wax off with a special steel plate I have
in the past skis made the mistake of not holding the scraper
plate vertical to the ski, then plate bends in, in the
middle, & you get a sole that is concave instead of
flat.
- If you've ripped out a 2cm hole under foot, by the edge,
doing an emergency stop on stone, it may be so deep you first
need a bit of epoxy resin.
- Ski shops sell repair sticks one can set light to &
drop the liquid plastic material along the groove.
Translucent & black are colours I have.
- Don't get it on your skin, hurts lost more than candle
wax, (as also does hot glue gun)
- It shrinks a bit as it cools, so if you have a deep
groove, put a bit more on than you expect you'd need.
- Its not as strong as ski base, so will eventually tear
out again.
- It will initially keep going out, so place a candle in a
tin can, more stable & easier than matches or a
lighter.
- Take the molten end of the burning stick along above the
groove at the right speed, to just lightly over fill the
groove.
- Later it will get too hot, & burn & run too fast,
so have multiple sticks, to allow others to cool off. To
avoid wasting material you can set both stick on fire for a
bit, hold together, blow out & keep stationary while they
cool.
- Working on a cold day is better, else it too quick burns
too fast.
- It makes a real mess, have newspaper under full length of
skis.
- The burning wax easily accelerates into a burning line of
liquid plastic, the longer you work. It needs string lungs to
blow it out. After you don't want more on the ski, stick
& below is still burning , I've seen the newspaper catch
on fire, so have bucket of water handy on the balcony. Don't
do this job in a ski room of in-flammables.
- Lastly, draw the steel plate at 90 to ski, backward along
length of ski, gently taking off thin layers of plastic.
Newspaper underneath to collect the plastic shavings.
Waxing
- There's block waxing, rubbing on skis (slipping &
cutting hands) can also be done on piste.
- There's spray waxing, can also be done on piste,
propellant might not meet Green approval.
- There's hot waxing, can be done from a mini bath of hot
wax in a ski rental shop. Or You can buy a special ski iron,
they're expensive, but smaller if packing for a long sojourn
racing in the alps. I just iron at home, good enough for
weekend trips from Munich.
- If you wax on the mountain, don't perfectionist wax one
ski before starting the other, do a bit on each, switching. A
friend may ski up out of the blue, & not want to wait,
leaving you on unbalanced skis .. which may unnerve you,
before realising it doesn't make so much difference on steep
slopes.
- Waxes are designed for temperature ranges. I once used
the wrong wax, it got too warm down the Trampelpfad from
Kitzbuhel to Jochberg, it became a very tedious push too
early.
- Set the electric iron to low temperature
- Don't use same iron you use for clothes. It takes ages to
unscrew iron, remove all wax from gaps & re-assemble.
Also I had a girl friend who grabbed my iron from cupboard
without realising I'd done my skis with it, & though it
was OK for my mens handkerchiefs, minute scores in the base,
& remnant wax didn't go well with frilly material
;-)
Binding Installation
- Most modern skis have a centre line half way along the
ski.
- Needs a drill stand, vital to drill vertical
- Vital to drill holes just the right size. Buy the special
size the binding manufacturer recommends. Its not a standard
diameter found in normal UK / Imperial / German metric DIY
sets.
- To avoid drilling too deep, wrap a bit of insulating tape
around drill bit.
- I used hair dryer to warm epoxy resin i poured into
mounting holes seconds before screwing bindings in.
- Ken Lawler may have other tips,
particularly how to saw the back of old skis, & re-screw
bindings further forward (difficult as skis thinner there),
to teach the short ski method (Ski Evolutif), I have cc'd Ken
via ski-org@
We already list Fackel Wanderung, as well as all forms of
skiing, but we would be delighted if someone wanted to organise
eg: snow shoe walking, sledging, rodel, ice skating on { a
Munich canal (eg Nymphenburg), lake (eg Maisinger See SW of
Starnberg) or { frozen tennis court by a ski lift - aka
Finkenberg base station) }
Top Of Page
It was suggested I prepare outline How-To notes to encourage
new Ski Organisers, & noted that
organising the accommodation is perhaps the most interesting
area of advice for an inexperienced/ new ski organiser. Paul
has also asked me. Emails/tips from other experienced Ski Organisers to fill out this section are
welcome, if not received, I may eventually get round to it
myself. Meantime, if you read the briefing notes for attenders
of my annual down hill
for Beginners & Experienced - Mayrhofen trip, you'll
have a good idea of what to do & what to avoid.
Top Of Page
We have a web based ski booking form available for some trips.
Most other trips are still booked direct with Ski Organiser. (When time is found by
Julian he will do more
work automating the back end behind the booking form, for
detail processing, & then offer an extended version to any
others Ski Organisers who may want
it.)
Top Of Page
There's lots of conventions us regular club skiers are used to,
for most just ask the regular club skiers, or the Ski Organiser, Here's a couple of examples:
- We very rarely go to hotels that accept credit cards -
bring Cash ! - All the other passengers in the car haven't
got any interest in going to a more expensive hotel or
restaurant, & all paying a lot more, just so's you can
use your credit card, (even if we could find somewhere to
take a card) so Bring Enough Cash.
- Petrol money: we normally aim to fill standard cars with
4 people, & leave the 3 passengers to pay all petrol,
leaving driver to incur depreciation
(think salt water corrosion & heavy engine wear on
mountains etc), that way we help encourage sufficient
drivers to suffer the corrosive salted
& gritted winter roads, & increased risk of collision
etc. If the driver has not bought rack
& chains, passengers sometimes deduct the price of a beer
from petrol money, & buy a beer over the weekend for the
driver who was kind enough to
synchronise his vehicle & squeeze their skis onto his
rack etc, thus encouraging more drivers to invest in rack & chains.
- We pretty much always stop for a drink after skiing &
don't rush off. The drivers don't
booze it up though.
- Passengers should synchronise withdrivers travel plans, be back on time from
skiing, & not order meals when rest are planning to
leave.
- Drivers co-ordinate plans with their fellow drivers.
- Passengers are normally head counted after skiing by
their own driver.drivers make mutual
check arrangements among each other. Passengers of a missing
/late driver should report the missing skier to other
drivers.
- We don't come back early to unlock vehicles for non
skiers.
- A meal on the way back to Munich is optional, subject to
driver - depends if stomach demanding
food to digest, plus aching muscles demanding blood to
rebuild, may deprive brain of blood supply to concentrate on
driving.
- We probably have other conventions too, which are easier
remembered in the snow fields than typing here in Munich
Top Of Page
Notes On Rows & Columns In Yearly Calendars
Notes On Columns In Yearly Calendars
-
Type:
- Down=Down hill,
- Tour=Ski Tour,
- Lang=Langlauf=Cross
Country.
- All=All types of skier
welcome.
- Where more than one type, main emphasis is listed
first.
-
Skill:
- Beg=Beginners (ie including
absolute beginners),
- Exp=Experienced.
- Any=Any level of experience
or lack thereof.
- Organiser: Name of
organiser. Click on it for more info.
- Destination:
Ski Organisers please tell me web
references(URL) for your Destination Resort, for Ski Map info
etc, & I'll make it click-able from the table.
- Free/ Commercial club
trips are organised free (but you still have to pay various
lifts & accommodation & petrol etc), but we also list
some Semi Commercial Trips: Most of
Ken's trips are marked
"Semi Commercial". on those the organiser's prime aim is to
teach people skiing, for which he offers a commercial
package, charges money, & bundles in equipment provision,
tuition, accommodation & (I think) lift pass) A few
experienced club skiers sometimes join those groups without
taking the package.
- Comment: Odd extra
info.
Notes On Rows In Yearly Calendars
- A row of dashes '-' (or empty boxes) is a date available
for an Ski Organiser (unless below
a preceeding multi day trip).
- Trips such as Ken's commercial trips & Peter's
Private trip maybe shown in {{brackets}}.
Top Of Page
- The annual ski planning meal enables us to
optimise/maximise the amount of ski trips available during the
ski season. It was started after we had a dry January one year:
the snow was good, but we fumbled the planning, & had no
down hill weekend for 3 weeks.
- We try to maximise the number of full weekends available
but get lower turnout if we have adjacent full weekends, so we
try to alternate full weekends & day trips on successive
weekends.
- We get fewer weekends if we first ad hoc book the easy to
organise single day trips on any random weekend Ski Organisers bid for; so instead it's
better to try to schedule the 2 day full weekends trips first,
on alternate weekends, & then add the one day trips in
between.
- We try when possible to avoid a full weekend on Fasching's
party weekend; we often do a one day trip then, Sunday
usually.
- The timetable needs to account for Christmas & Easter. EG 1 day
trips on weekends when accommodation is hard to find, 2 days
(or more) when easy.
- We sometime run 2 trips the same day, EG Langlauf &
down hill, but a few Ski Organisers
do more than one form of skiing, & don't want to miss out,
so sometime we do EG langlauf on Saturday & down hill on
Sunday (or vice versa), rather than 2 1 day & none the
other day same weekend.
- Langlauf dates: try: Munich International Ski Club
- We usually (but not always) manage to avoid EG a 1 day down
hill in one resort on the same weekend a 2 day down hill trip
in a different resort.
- We also arrange small groups not officially announced,
often at short notice via eg winterised beer gardeners
& ski@ ).
- Hanenkamm date in
2006 clashed with Mayrhofen
trip so might be Traffic jams to avoid in future years
?.
- Top Of Page
- The schedule used to be organised with identical papers
with dates in front of each Ski
Organiser at the ski planning meal, for bids for dates
& then collated, discussed & dates shuffled to optimise
use of weekends. As that was best typed, & as we usually
know a few requests in advance, it's helpful to list those too,
& as the info will be published on web & email it's
convenient to list early tentative plans on the web too. Some
years Julian just
provides a giant sheet, & all trips are marked up, that
system works well with smaller numbers, but problems of wet
table & dark restaurants. Torch useful ! In 2004 Julian also had a laptop
loaded & ready with the planning table, (which would have
made inserting extra mid week trips in particular, rather
easier, but then paper was used as more easily review-able by
all the group (passing a laptop around among glasses of beer,
& plates of food is problematic.
- Details can be registered on this list by emailing or
phoning Julian.
- These dates are NOT fixed, they're just some initial wishes
of some individual Ski Organisers
& will likely be changed somewhat when Ski Organisers together at & after the
annual Ski Organisers planning meal,
when we optimise the season's schedule.
-
First Come First Served ? - No It's Not That Simple !
- It is not necessarily first come first served for this
timetable, neither by email bids nor on the planning
night.
- it seems best to optimise the ski timetable to maximise
ski enjoyment & safety etc, for the skiers, not simply
to satisfy whichever Ski
Organiser managed to bid first by email, or managed to
arrive on time for the ski meal.
- Full weekend ski trips in prime snow time (Jan to
mid/late Feb) are considered valuable, not to be messed up
by less than experienced Ski
Organisers, so it's appreciated if newer Ski Organisers to the group first do one
day trips, & smaller 2 day trips out of prime time,
until they've shown the group they have the proven
organisational ability to extend to reliably &
successfully organise large groups in prime snow time.
(There's a lot to get right, or wrong, in a full weekend,
& only a few optimal dates in a short season, so we
can't afford to waste any).
- "First come" might (or not) be OK for langlauf, which
generally is low death/serious injury risk compared to down
hill or ski tour.
- When you get to be standing on a steep mountain,
perhaps teaching down hill beginners how to crash properly
& avoid broken arm/legs etc, or teaching tourer-s
avalanche danger assessment etc,
then competence is more important than who made first
claim.
- There's other criteria, equally doubtless skiers will
think of & understand them better than non skiers,
& be more affected by the decisions than non skiers, so
such decisions are best left to skiers !
- It's optimal if we first try to work out from other
constraints, which weekends are best for 1 or 2 day trips, then
Ski Organisers choose dates available
?
- Like to organise a trip yourself? - Pick a free date
above & get advice from other Ski Organisers.
- Date Arbitration/decision etc is by the body of Ski Organisers.
-
Top Of Page
Another Group: Richard Gipps'
Ski Tourers group
Click above, then on "Activity Groups -> # Munich -> #
Sports & Leisure -> # Alpine Division -> # Activities
"
International business group, pay subscriptions if you want
real sports event info, not just Munich drinking venues with
entry fees.
Top Of Page
Another Group: Ken Lawler's Short Ski
Beginners Group
http://parallelskiing.com/
http://parallelskiing.ws24.cc
Ken's group is a Verein (club e.v.). There's numerous of our
people there & vice versa. Many good recommendations too,
& he does one open trip, no tuition or charges etc for us
too. Ken's group provides equipment, beginners training,
accommodation & lift tickets for a fee.
Top Of Page
Paraski, a
Yahoo group run by HanZi Field, who took Ken's beginner course in maybe
2002. HanZi went skiing nearly every weekend and was always
looking for passengers and drivers to go
along. Hanzi also does barbecues in summer, & overlaps with
people in our circles. @2013 Paraski seemed inactive. @2016-02
still inactive: last 2 posts in March 2013
Top Of Page
One day trips, weekend, long weekend and week long trips. Day
trip cost per person in 2004: Members - Eur. 35, Non-members -
Eur. 45, Long trips: February 20 - 24 Kranjska Gora, Slovenia,
Italy at Easter. 3 - 10 April. Madesima resort.
Entry fee of 10 Euro, & Annual Membership of 30 Euro
(when last I looked).
2013 quote: The bus WILL depart at 06:45 so you need to be
there for 06:30
Top Of Page
Railway, bus companies and sport shops offer day trips with
transport maybe breakfast and lift pass built in. They leave
very early in the morning (typically German !) and leave the
resort too early as well, even more typically German ! I've
never tried them, as I aim to arrive at top of mountain with
last lift, maybe admire the view or have a drink, wait for the
crowd to clear off, then ski down & have another drink
& a cake in a cafe/bar. Forget that relaxed idea if you'r
on a commercial German bus.
-
Can book with with Sport Scheck tel 54907560 or Sport
Scheck Travel Agency 38014151 {Mail from Ken} Email Day trips
to Hoch-Zillertal every Wed, Fri, Sat Sun (till 6th of
april) . 6:50 from Haupt-bahnhof (in front of
Karstadt). Wed/Fri for 34 Euro, Sat/Sun for 41 Euro
(prices inclusive return bus trip, ski pass &
breakfast) {Mail from Ken}
-
(info 23707299) also offers Tages- fahrten - destinations
are announced on the Wed. before, so drop in at Sport
Schuster (Marienplatz) and pick up a leaflet and to book.
Go to their travel agency on the first floor and ask for
the Tages-fahrten - these trips don't make it onto the web
site: Prices around 40 Eur. (depending where you go)
inclusive return bus trip & ski pass. Bus leaves 07.30
from 'Rinder-markt', behind Sport Schuster, Marienplatz.
Book a place, don't just turn up! {Mail from Ken}
-
Offers the Kombi-Ticket: Transport and ski pass
Schliersee-Spitzingsee 33 Euros BayerischZell-Sudelfeld 32
Euros Lengries-Brauneck 31 Euros Tickets In the main hall
at the Hauptbahnhof (DB-desk 47 or 49) info: 08024 997171
{Mail from Ken}
- Big companies such as Siemens
& Hypo vereins bank & EPO (European Patent
Office)
also organise occasional ski trips for employees &
freelancers working there. Ask around, your quiet colleague
might be a secret ace skier ;-)
- A lot of UK ski package tours fly in via Munich, It used to
be possible, so probably still is, to hook up with some if you
make your own way to the airport.
- Some accommodation places are well know for lively &
late night groups
,
maybe possible to meet others there & try skiing together
for a bit.
- Top Of Page
- Water
Ski
- https://skimap.org/SkiAreas/view/634
Zillertal 3000
- www.schneehoehen.de/schneehoehen/oesterreich/tirol
schneehoehen.de
.. mayrhofen Sells hotel beds; might be useful for
links.
- Severe Swaying Ski Lift
- Video - Storm
in Ischgl - Monday 2018-01-22
- Question:, In such a cabin, Which side is best to sit ?
Up or Down ?
The yachtsman reflex is Upside, to stiffen the cabin
back toward vertical, discourage shipping water, &
bring more wind on to sail, but more wind pressure might
more likely derail cable off the wheels.
As lighter cabins with no humans in sway more,
reducing a manned cabin angle will not reduce chance of a
mast collision somewhere else on the cable loop.
The major danger I guess is not that one's own cabin
derails, but that other more exposed cabins dis-rail. I
believe the only braking on most cable loops is via the
main drive wheels top & bottom. So if enough cabins
slip off the pylon/ mast wheels, the length of the loop
will increase, the concrete counterweight in bottom
station could descend to the base of containing hole,
then no friction on base station winding wheel, & the
whole loop could rotate back down the mountain, whichever
side is heavier. Even worse, the loop might derail off
the base wheel.
What speed cable cars have to slow & stop at I
don't know, presumably different maximal wind gust speeds
for different things:
- Unloading cabins coming into the stations: many
have a vertical alignment pin or guide underneath that
needs to engage.
- When cabins sway sideways too much, the windward
side of the endless loop, cabin verticals gripping the
steel rope would strike the wheels mounted on the
pylons, cabins would strike masts.
- Chance of derailment of steel rope from rubber
lined steel wheels, is probably mostly a factor of
profile of rubber lined wheel, how shallow, & how
high the metal rim. IMO rubber is fairly shallow. The
twisted wire rope might start to grip & climb the
rubber edge of the wheel lining ?
Presumably empty cabins that sway more provide less
wind resistance, but less weight, wonder if derailment
would start (but not end with!) empty cabins or occupied
?. I assume just while going over pylon wheels, more
weight would be good, but maybe if all the intermediary
cabins are empty, less aggregate sideways push.
Impossible :-)
I have very rarely seen lots of concrete weights with
steel handles in cable stations, one ready for each
cabin; (usually just occasional beer crates, & in the
past containers of fuel oil, but diesel driven stations
seems increasingly rare.
Other considerations:
- Cable de-torsioning & over-torsioning around
the base & top drive wheels caused by different
angles of cabins hanging in open air &
stations.
- Fraying of rubber wheel liners abraded by spiral
cable rotated on to edge of wheel liners.
- Torsional force around the verticals of cabins that
don't have humans balanced, one at front & one at
back. Those cable clamps are always rather small just a
few cm to take torsional strain if you look closely,
the long bits are too support stress fore & aft,
not rotational stress.
Some things to look at in old photos of ski lifts,
& take new photos on next ski trip. (Mayrhofen, Feb
2018)
- Top Of Page
Problems Happen - Be Prepared !
Experienced ski Organisers know
things can go wrong, & we try to plan ahead. We also ask
trip participants to also keep thinking ahead too, taking
personal responsibility, & trying to help organiser where
possible. Anticipating the unexpected (& the expected) is
what experienced Ski Organisers &
skiers do, but no matter how hard we plan, something else may
get us ;-) That's not to put you off skiing or organising,
(that too can be fun), just that it's easier when people Think
& Plan ahead too.
"SKI TRIPS FROM HELL ?" Not Really (Good phrase for a search
engine to catch more skier interest though ? ;-)
Here's some problems this Ski
Organiser recalls (from decades of trips, not all on 1 true
trip from hell ! (ordered roughly in the order a ski trip
happens).
-
Organisation pre start:
- It gets busy pre departure, this author once
organised (unpaid, in his own time) a ski trip with 39
skiers (41 booked, but 2 ill), inc. lots of beginners,
& about 13 cars ...
- Passengers, even car drivers
can be unexpectedly ill, a no show at departure point, or
car is problematic (doesn't happen much,drivers generally feel responsibility
& cancel with organiser even if it has to happen
night before, so only a problem for organiser to alert
reserve driver, if any).
- Lack of cars, or passengers for booked cars, lack of
snow chains for glaciers, winter tyres, ski racks,
inadequate anti-freeze, cars doors locked solid, car
break downs. Yes, someone did run out of fuel
& various of us nearly have, thats why we carry
spare fuel (that passengers then sometimes complain
smells & takes space). Yes we've had dodgey batteries
(the driver of a car with a good
battery & jump leads waits for dodgey car to start).
We've had ski racks spring open in transit, luckily no
skis took flight.
-
Border, Passports, Austrian currency for Autobahn
Pickerl
- Driver turned back at the border, 'cos
of no passport, dodgy car papers, & passenger
left with no driver.
- Car impounded by border police, sudden
extra passenger & skis to squeeze into whichever cars
if any remain behind the impounded one.
- Passengers with no Passports. A lone dark Indian face
gets noticed best without a passport on a sunny day
;-)
- Sat Morning: Screen wash jets freeze up on the road, emit
ice on screen.drivers can be too mean,
& passengers too when they complain that expensive extra
petrol money also include screen wash. Is it an optional
luxury to see where the vehicle is driving/ sliding ?!
- Stuck without chains, can't get up
- Drivers who insisted on
using junk cars, & thus having otherdrivers with better cars leave theirs in
Munich. One got stuck up top
without chains, he & passengers couldn't get down icy
road back to valley, hotels & home.
-
Skiing
- People who forget equipment money & passports to
rent equipment.
- Sat Morning: Snow storm so heavy it takes most of day
to drive to Ischgl, then 3 people use 1 afternoon ticket
& return to bar & give away ticket to next it's
so bad no 4th person will take the free ticket.
- Chair up gets stuck in a blizzard for maybe an hour
up at Hintertux (too high & windy & dangerous to
continue movement).
- Friends you don't even recognise, faces distorted by
cold. Again Hintertux.
-
Sat Night After skiing:
- Injury - worse if it
its the driver! Is the car insured for other
drivers?
- Passengers forget which car, or where. Blizzard up at
Hintertux rips paper notes off windscreen.
- Road closure from avalanche
danger, skiers stranded in ski boots in bar now closing,
no hotels left, no money & passports for hotels
either, cars blocked by locked barrier from driving
through avalanche endangered
road to reach rooms containing normal shoes, clothes,
passports, money & beds for the night.
- Ski drivers & passengers
separated, lost from each other, now on different
mountains/valley stations, after having been separated by
lack of visibility, piste closed by avalanche danger, different
speed/ability etc. Lost skiers & missing drivers,
can't stick notes to wind screens 'cos the snow ice wind
sleet rain & dark defeat paper ink & you, &
it's slow walking in ski boots, & the last bus has
gone, & taxis are expensive, or no racks, or just not
available
-
Sat After Lifts Close, Finkenberg
-
Skiers
stuck in dead end valleys, night closing in, hours of
hard work ahead: either walking up mountain back to
piste at top of mountain (to reach piste to valley)
or the same but hours skiing in increasing dark
through raw forest. Then dogs start howling. Well,
back behind walls & at lower altitudes everyone
tells you it must have been valley dogs. When you'r
alone up the top of a mountain all people have left 2
hours ago, darker by the minute, you'r entitled to a
different guess! Dogs ? maybe. & then down,
Passengers &drivers
separated & clueless of whereabouts, should
rescue services be called, what would they find in
the dark, what would it Cost ?!. No mobile phones
then (& coverage even now far from overall).
- Finkenberg End Of Day # 2
Skiers stuck in same dead end valleys, lifts closed,
off piste the other way (N end) all the way to
valley.
-
Sat after skiing: hunting beds:
- Lack of hotel rooms
- Can't book pensions often for 1 night.
- Never enough single rooms.
- Fools who were told before trip, Cash, no Cards, then
want us all to stay in (or driver
to drive them to) an expensive hotel cos they have no
cash for B&B.
- Idiots
who even half way up one mountain then down the next
hunting for rooms, argue Demand their absolute "Right" to
a single room, where no rooms single or double are to be
had, (& where if any singles are, usually single
drivers are offered them first to
ensure a good sleep & safer drive home next
day).
- Can't find where booked pensions are. (Austrian
villages number buildings in villages chronologically,
according to when the first building was on site, maybe
centuries back, maybe an old low numbered building has
since been replaced by a new looking building. Street
names often don't get used. & They leave Green "Free"
signs out when not free.
- Can't drive to B&B 'cos too steep narrow &
icy ! (yes, even too steep for this author's previous
powerful car, which had All of: 4 snow chains, winter
tyres, 4wheel drive, divide by 2transmission reduction,
& turbo - still too steep / slippery (well even if I
got up there, was I going to find space to turn, &
how was I going to get other party cars up there ? Would
I have to spend hours moving multiple car loads of people
skis & luggage all up the mountain in my one car ?
where would we leave all the other cars ? What if it
snowed again overnight ?
- Hotel rooms stolen by club members
not booked on the trip.
- Sat night (driver
decides cold night, not enough anti freeze, set alarm to
about 3 AM to get up, go out & run up engine to
heat.
- Sat Night/Sun Morning Mugging (Robbery) of party member
.
- Sun. Afternoon Blizzard
:
The odd blizzard perhaps with a group of you on a snow slope
of 45 degrees, a few miles from human habitation, (skiers car
groups are never sorted by ski ability, so ski groups
comprise assorted passengers &drivers belonging to car groups of skiers
elsewhere on same or loosely adjacent mountains. Visibility
about as far as the end of your ski tip ! Needing to stab
sticks in snow to see if moving/ drifting. Curious sensory
deprivation !
- Sun. Night Solden pre new lift :
Rush to leave car park before dead end glacier tunnel is
locked for the night. No time to get chains on. Road down is
icier than road up (rained & froze during day). Nothing
at all on edge of road. driver scared
car might slip sideway off edge. 3 passengers pushing car
sideways while driver alone in car
drives down! (Solden, before they put in another lift up to
the glacier).
-
Sun Morning:
- Broken rib, broken arm reported to the organiser at
breakfast, before 1st coffee, reported by an aggressive
fool
threatening the organiser to beat him up, because
organiser didn't know, wasn't told, & was skiing a
different mountain with a different group from a
different car yesterday, & this is the first he's
heard, no one having reported it earlier, as the
injured's friend's took him to hospital & he's been
dealt with & quite alright (as he assures us later on
his return).
- Sun. Morning Irate land ladies "You'r the
organiser, so who of yours had that illicit unpaid mixed
sauna for 2?"
- Broken/stolen skis boots sticks
- Sun Night Return
-
- People who tell drivers they
`must' be driven back up mountain fast to return gear
before shop closes, or `must' return early to Munich (no
chance! Idiots just cause annoy themselves & all
others.)
- Sun. Night: Chains removed in road lay by, A while
later a smell builds, someone had bad food ? Nope, the
chains were removed where there was frozen dog excrement
, its now melted into the carpet.
- Border Again!Once we had a dark faced Indian
friend who'd forgotten his passport, returning from
Austria to Munich in the old days when they checked every
car passenger's passport (They still do when they suspend
Schengen occasionally for a special event. Even worse, he
was a beginner, hired skis there, the other 3 of us had
our skis on the roof rack, & customs were often seen
to count heads & skis as an easy check.
- Sun night.: very new car, drives all the way back to
Munich, then 1st petrol station off autobahn & inside
ring near Giesing, Subaru clutch cable break ! Wow ! Was
that luck or what ?
- Sun night.: 50 KM out from Munich head lamps of new
car dim: So driver tells
passengers: off with radio, off with heater blower, off
with rear de-mister off with headlights, down to side
lights & tail lights, & hope there's enough
battery drive ignition to get to Munich. Then some idiot
passenger complains they're cold & turn on the
heater! - No we're all cold ! Do you want car stranded on
Autobahn ?
Turns out later Subaru had used too many cable ties on
the earth cable between engine & chassis, no room for
wobble, metal fatigue in copper cable.
- Passenger
claiming Sunday morning to have no money to pay hotel or
driver's petrol money. Pretence kept up all the way to
Munich, till driver
said he intended to leave that
passenger's new skis locked on roof, & auction them
off down the club next Friday at low price to raise
petrol money. Miraculously money to pay for hotel &
petrol was then found ;-)
Again, the purpose of the above list is Not to scare
you off, it took decades for all of those to happen. But
you Should keep alert, planning ahead, & help the
organiser where possible. Mentally lazy passengers are a
nuisance, think ahead !
Top Of Page
Driving back to Munich Sunday nights can be tiring after skiing
hard,maybe a bad nights sleep if sharing a twin room, &
worse, a meal in the mountains driving home, (this author
doesn't eat in the mountains now Sunday evening, better to be
hungry & awake). If maybe sleepy passengers are not holding
up their end of conversations keeping driver awake it can be
worse. (Your driver may invite you to have a good contentious
debate to keep hm awake, or play devils advocate, play along !
;-)
Alternately, for
about 10 Euro you can buy an mp3 player that powers of a car
cigarette lighter socket It takes SD cards & USB sticks
up to 2Gig, Before the ski trip one can download free
documentary & comedy programmes etc from eg www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/
to help one keep awake driving Try also http://www.archive.org
Ski Avalanche People Search Detectors
- We don't usually do ski
tour (where these are advised), we usually don't have them,
& usually (not always) stay on piste.
- I was asked by a ski tourer if
smart phones could interfere with these devices ? I'm working
out the answer below, adding info as it comes in, I would appreciate
technical info no hear-say please, back your statements
with URLs (web refs)!):
tiscover
bed booker for Zillertal
Years ago, we were part of a largely non skiers club that died.
The grey box below was to deter various non skier committee
members etc, who used to periodically dump ignorant criticism
on Ski Organisers. A list of some
problems we've survived was written to
show them just how clueless of ski organising they were, to
encourage them Not to push their ignorant opinions. We're long
rid of those people, but stories of some `problems' & events still entertains
occasionally over a beer
Each time there's a skiing problem, one receives a few
un-solicited & usually un-informed comments from
non skiers who seem to all too often make the ignorant
assumption (sub-conscious or conscious) that organising
a ski trip should be based on similar principles to
those used to organise other events most of which are
of a far more trivial nature, EG trip to a Munich
restaurant. Non skiers often don't bother asking nearly
enough questions before issuing their frequently
un-informed opinions, & it gets tedious trying to
politely explain the many things they hadn't realised
or bothered to ask. It's of course possible for non
skiers, & skiers of limited experience to have
useful ideas, & for those we're grateful, but
please ask _lots_ of questions before you allow an idea
to grow to an opinion formed in ignorance, that could
likely cause annoyance if thrust un-asked on Ski Organisers.
- Get Experience:
- Learn to ski (any type of ski) ! - Your
perceptions may change.
- If you've tried Langlauf & weren't scared
...
- Try down hill, its faster & more
dangerous,
- Try Ski Tour. - sometime slower than down
hill, can be more dangerous though.
- Realise not all off piste is [equally]
dangerous
- Read some analysis of avalanche angles,
layers, chunky layers, & lower sliding
surfaces.
- Try walking up some mountains in summer
you've skied down the winter before. Consider the
tracks & gradients & erosion.
- Go as a skier on lots of trips.
- Graduate from Bus trips where it's easy &
all Must conform, to private car trips, where
there's more to co-ordinate & organise, &
accommodation to find etc.
- Organise some Ski Trips, start on 1 day
trips, easier.
- Organise complete ski weekends, needing to
find accommodation up & down the valley
etc.
- Organise beginners trips
- Keep doing it for 10 to 20 years for a club.
Remember Ski Organisers
mistakes (yours & others), logistical
contingencies & accidents & problems your
skiers have been caught out by in the mountains,
& learn from them, & try to plan to avoid
them etc.
- Encourage other Skiers to both help out on
big trips & also organise other trips
- ... And now the hard bit ... ;-)
- Sigh when non skiers dump unsolicited
opinions on you about ski matters !
- A few of us are experienced Ski Organisers who have done most
or all the above list.
Ski trips, particularly down hill/tour & full
weekend trips are much more complex & potentially
dangerous & need much more forward planning than
simple club events such as the trivial booking of a
meal in a city Restaurant, that many experience as a
club `Event', that the ignorant sometimes
[un]consciously draw parallels with, when forming
opinions on how all club events should be organised
& who is `entitled' to what.
Non skiers would be wiser to ask a Lot more
questions before forming an opinion, or worse, pushing
ignorant un-solicited opinions on experienced ski
Organisers.
|
- Contact Ski Organisers well in
advance for weekend trips (deposits often required).
- All routes & destinations subject to snow conditions
and car seats available, snow & road conditions, &
Ski Organisers decisions.
- Events can be relocated, postponed or cancelled if
necessary without notice, for instance due to snow or traffic
conditions, lack of enough participants or transport, or
indisposition of Ski Organisers.
- Check your e-mail, pay attention to announcements at the
Friday. Stammtisch, and always confirm booking with the
Ski Organiser beforehand.
- Don't just turn up (unless the Ski
Organiser specifically advertises that is acceptable), as
there may well be no space for you.
- If you must cancel, formally cancel direct with the
Ski Organiser so he/she knows.
No-shows who muck up our car & or hotel sharing plans are
not welcome on subsequent trips, Ski
Organisers mention names of no shows to fellow Ski Organisers.
- Weekend trips often require advance booking and deposits
paid, which we & your friends drink at your expense, if you
fail to show up without adequate warning.
- Events are organised by volunteers. Participation is
entirely at your own risk and on your own responsibility.
Organisers, drivers, & fellow skiers etc disclaim All
responsibility - if you do not accept that, do not come.
- Top Of Page
- Format & Content in whole & in parts, Copyright
Julian Stacey, Munich
2001-2013.
- Permission granted to make links to this & other
pages.
- Top Of Page
Glacier Skiing
Hintertux, Sölden, Stubai, Pitztal
Body Protection
American footballers wear shoulder pads... 30 years back I had
racing ski trousers with soft padded knees round to hips. (But
not a hard outer shell back then). Elderly non skiers have hip
protectors, so I wonder if high speed professional slalom
skiers might be able to use similar technology for knee or hip
protectors ? Analogy: skiers didn't use to wear helmets.
Cricketers wore no face protectors etc.
Emergency Phone Numbers told me at Nederle near Kappl near
Ischgl 2018-01-24 at www.nederle.at
- 112 European Notruf Innsbruck
- 122 Fuer-Wehr
- 133 Polizei Not-fall Im Tal
- 144 Berg Rettung
Odds:
www.lawinenwarndienst-bayern.de
www.lawinenwarndienst-bayern.de/res/archiv/messdaten/saisongrafik.php
PS A clip from email:
I've done a lot of skiing, & plan to do more. Competitive racer
skiers can wear their knees out by 25 years old Most recreational
skiers dont do real racing: (when knees act like shock absorbers),
I've done a very little semi racing earlier in life (skiing a
mountain, not just a slope as fast as possible, but it's damn
dangerous, only think of it when slopes are empty & visibility is
good, & your muscles will be screaming at you, so are you really
in control to emergency stop ? most probably not, even more probably
not if you ve stuck a ski cam on your helmet. I've not skied whole
mountains non stop in decades, too dangerous, the laws of Kinetic
energy are non negotiable. (Most normal recreational ski injuries
will be twists & breaks I imagine, not worn out knee linings from
absorbing repetitive bump shocks.).
See Also: ../bike/#knees & ../walk/#knees
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