Arm Ukraine, zap Putin

Stolen Votes logo logo

No Cookies

Flag UK DE





No Tracking





Berklix Ski Group Left half of British Union Jack flag + Right half of German flag

This Page Is

Other Berklix Activity Groups


Why Ski With Us ? :
No Membership Fees, No Busses, No Smoke, No Data Harvesting

  • We are totally non commercial.
    • You pay us Nothing ... except you pay drivers direct for petrol, & you may pay a returnable deposit to organiser to ensure you do turn up, & do not cause trouble - like a bail bond ;-) .
    • No joining fee, No annual membership, No booking fee.
    • Nothing for tuition (we only do a max. of 1 beginner's trip per year, & that's free, except nice if you buy advisers a drink if the advice seems useful.
    • Nothing for equipment (hire or buy your own, not via us, we'll just suggest where)
    • We start from Munich later than busses !
    • We leave resorts considerably later than busses, car drivers don't tend to drink (this Author/driver strictly so)
    • We go by Multiple Private Cars. - Far More Flexible Than Busses !
      • Get out of bed Later smiley face icon no need for hellish early Germanicly inspired 06:30 bus departure of 30 to 50 people. No crowded train. We don't rush to be first in the Autobahn Stau, Leave the locals to compete at getting up so desperately early they _might_ avoid the jams/ Staus. Typically we meet at 08:00.
      • We can go somewhere else if the snow report is bad.
      • We can go somewhere else Sunday if Saturday snow is bad (obviously we think lift tickets, petrol, time).
      • We don't rush down the mountain to the bus to rush back to Munich. Some of us stay in the Alps for a drink (non alcoholic. for drivers) &/or bite to eat after, or half way home, sometimes at favourite places we've know for years.
      • Sometimes (after we're all off the mountain) we swap passengers between drivers to better match those who want to lounge & those who want to rush off.)
      • If it suits both driver & passengers, passengers may be may be dropped off somewhere more mutually convenient at end of trip, but normally we drop passengers back to Sat AM collection point. No guarantees. Safety first. Anywhere on U-Bahn net if desperate. Remember driver might be very tired after a few hours driving after a day or 2's skiing.
    • No Data Harvesting
      • We don't use web forums or hide behind aliases, no pseudonyms, we use real human names & email addresses.
      • The Internet domains we use are NOT owned by commercial companies, will not be later sold to commercial operators (as at least one other web forum listed here was). Our domains do Not harvest your or our email or web traffic or names. The author guarantees that.
      • We do Not try to recruit you by free restricted membership, with more services for money. (Unlike at least one site pointed to here).
    • Non Smokers Only. Tobacco stinks worse in the cold air. Having just non smokers make us more attractive to to other non smokers. We've not had a smoker on a ski trip in a decade, & don't need the smell or the the headache.
    • We can all speak English & usually do. We use singular Du not plural Sie if/when we speak German to each other (unless > 2 people), no stiff linguistic baggage ;-)
    • We're mostly not new in town, so we've learnt where to ski. We know a Lot about the areas, & a lot of us have own cars.
    • Our purpose is to SKI, not to Booze (unlike some group(s) ;-) Sure we drink, but not lots, that's best left in Munich, when not driving skis or cars.
    • You'll also find our other activity mail lists for Snow Walks & Summer flat & mountain hikes walks, cycle trips, & Err ;-) .. Drinking on Saturdays + occasional bowling etc



( Web refs to some random resorts. Just random web refs so far. )

Top Of Page


Various people have asked me about ski servicing, so here's my notes: (PS I don't service other people's stuff, just my own, these are DIY notes, I disclaim all liability, use your own common sense to decide if you're skilled enough. ) I sharpen my own edges, & also fill my own grooves & wax my own skis & installed own bindings, & repair own edges, & have never paid a service shop. Various people have asked over the years, so I've written notes below, & am putting them for all at


  • I have 2 tools: plastic handles with embedded coarse scraper, but neither much good, & if your hand slips you get a very nasty cut, so wear gloves. Not ski gloves cos they're expensive, cheap gloves.
  • I only use those old scraper tools occasionally in ski resorts if desperate I usually wait for a warm day in Munich, rotate sole side upward, then G clamp the skis to balcony rail so they cant slip.
  • Place wood blocks under skis to make them rest level on table. Paperback books might do at a pinch in a ski resort, but some very nasty little bits of sharp metal come off edges, & you don't want them falling out of pages of a book you may read in bed.
  • I put a special brace over ski stoppers of turntable Look N 77 bindings, to stop them protruding upward. For other bindings I retract ski stoppers, then slip a loop of string or wire over, to stop them protruding. A velcro strip is not usually strong enough & may slip.
  • Wear goggles to protect eyes from metal fragments.
  • I then hand apply a power sander (band sander or rectangular base sander, but not circular sander with a round disc. & certainly avoid circular disc with a rounded plate!
  • Apply sander gently at right angles to the ski sole = running surface. Needs a good eye & steady hand to achieve 90 degrees & not wobble off. Don't press too hard, or it may take too much off, or produce a rounded edge.
  • Remember not to protrude in on lower side, keep it vertical, you are Not aiming for the sander to touch the lower side of the ski, only the perhaps 3mm of vertical steel & fractional support beyond, on the side of ski adjacent to the sole, beyond that, the side wall takes a step in.
  • You will need to machine more steel off toward the middle, than on the ends.
  • I had a pair of skis once where the steel edge had completely torn out of the side of the ski, various shops said it was irreparable, buy new! I scraped out the dirt, polished off the rust, cut the end square, clamped the rail in, drilled a hole through base & hole in rail & through most of top of ski, cleaned the hole, cut the end of a pointed nail, poured hot epoxy resin in hole, left to set for 2 days, more hot resin between metal edge & ski above, waited 2 days, removed clamps, cut off surplus nail, metal file to polish base. I used it for many years after.


  • Ski until no wax left on the base
  • Scrape remnant wax off with a special steel plate I have in the past skis made the mistake of not holding the scraper plate vertical to the ski, then plate bends in, in the middle, & you get a sole that is concave instead of flat.
  • If you've ripped out a 2cm hole under foot, by the edge, doing an emergency stop on stone, it may be so deep you first need a bit of epoxy resin.
  • Ski shops sell repair sticks one can set light to & drop the liquid plastic material along the groove. Translucent & black are colours I have.
  • Don't get it on your skin, hurts lost more than candle wax, (as also does hot glue gun)
  • It shrinks a bit as it cools, so if you have a deep groove, put a bit more on than you expect you'd need.
  • Its not as strong as ski base, so will eventually tear out again.
  • It will initially keep going out, so place a candle in a tin can, more stable & easier than matches or a lighter.
  • Take the molten end of the burning stick along above the groove at the right speed, to just lightly over fill the groove.
  • Later it will get too hot, & burn & run too fast, so have multiple sticks, to allow others to cool off. To avoid wasting material you can set both stick on fire for a bit, hold together, blow out & keep stationary while they cool.
  • Working on a cold day is better, else it too quick burns too fast.
  • It makes a real mess, have newspaper under full length of skis.
  • The burning wax easily accelerates into a burning line of liquid plastic, the longer you work. It needs string lungs to blow it out. After you don't want more on the ski, stick & below is still burning , I've seen the newspaper catch on fire, so have bucket of water handy on the balcony. Don't do this job in a ski room of in-flammables.
  • Lastly, draw the steel plate at 90 to ski, backward along length of ski, gently taking off thin layers of plastic. Newspaper underneath to collect the plastic shavings.


  • There's block waxing, rubbing on skis (slipping & cutting hands) can also be done on piste.
  • There's spray waxing, can also be done on piste, propellant might not meet Green approval.
  • There's hot waxing, can be done from a mini bath of hot wax in a ski rental shop. Or You can buy a special ski iron, they're expensive, but smaller if packing for a long sojourn racing in the alps. I just iron at home, good enough for weekend trips from Munich.
  • If you wax on the mountain, don't perfectionist wax one ski before starting the other, do a bit on each, switching. A friend may ski up out of the blue, & not want to wait, leaving you on unbalanced skis .. which may unnerve you, before realising it doesn't make so much difference on steep slopes.
  • Waxes are designed for temperature ranges. I once used the wrong wax, it got too warm down the Trampelpfad from Kitzbuhel to Jochberg, it became a very tedious push too early.
  • Set the electric iron to low temperature
  • Don't use same iron you use for clothes. It takes ages to unscrew iron, remove all wax from gaps & re-assemble. Also I had a girl friend who grabbed my iron from cupboard without realising I'd done my skis with it, & though it was OK for my mens handkerchiefs, minute scores in the base, & remnant wax didn't go well with frilly material ;-)

Binding Installation

  • Most modern skis have a centre line half way along the ski.
  • Needs a drill stand, vital to drill vertical
  • Vital to drill holes just the right size. Buy the special size the binding manufacturer recommends. Its not a standard diameter found in normal UK / Imperial / German metric DIY sets.
  • To avoid drilling too deep, wrap a bit of insulating tape around drill bit.
  • I used hair dryer to warm epoxy resin i poured into mounting holes seconds before screwing bindings in.
  • Ken Lawler may have other tips, particularly how to saw the back of old skis, & re-screw bindings further forward (difficult as skis thinner there), to teach the short ski method (Ski Evolutif), I have cc'd Ken via ski-org@

Other Trips

We already list Fackel Wanderung, as well as all forms of skiing, but we would be delighted if someone wanted to organise eg: snow shoe walking, sledging, rodel, ice skating on { a Munich canal (eg Nymphenburg), lake (eg Maisinger See SW of Starnberg) or { frozen tennis court by a ski lift - aka Finkenberg base station) }

Top Of Page

How To Organise A Ski Trip

It was suggested I prepare outline How-To notes to encourage new Ski Organisers, & noted that organising the accommodation is perhaps the most interesting area of advice for an inexperienced/ new ski organiser. Paul has also asked me. Emails/tips from other experienced Ski Organisers to fill out this section are welcome, if not received, I may eventually get round to it myself. Meantime, if you read the briefing notes for attenders of my annual down hill for Beginners & Experienced - Mayrhofen trip, you'll have a good idea of what to do & what to avoid.

Top Of Page

Booking Form

We have a web based ski booking form available for some trips. Most other trips are still booked direct with Ski Organiser. (When time is found by Julian he will do more work automating the back end behind the booking form, for detail processing, & then offer an extended version to any others Ski Organisers who may want it.)

Top Of Page

Conventions EG Petrol etc

There's lots of conventions us regular club skiers are used to, for most just ask the regular club skiers, or the Ski Organiser, Here's a couple of examples:
  • We very rarely go to hotels that accept credit cards - bring Cash ! - All the other passengers in the car haven't got any interest in going to a more expensive hotel or restaurant, & all paying a lot more, just so's you can use your credit card, (even if we could find somewhere to take a card) so Bring Enough Cash.
  • Petrol money: we normally aim to fill standard cars with 4 people, & leave the 3 passengers to pay all petrol, leaving driver to incur depreciation (think salt water corrosion & heavy engine wear on mountains etc), that way we help encourage sufficient drivers to suffer the corrosive salted & gritted winter roads, & increased risk of collision etc. If the driver has not bought rack & chains, passengers sometimes deduct the price of a beer from petrol money, & buy a beer over the weekend for the driver who was kind enough to synchronise his vehicle & squeeze their skis onto his rack etc, thus encouraging more drivers to invest in rack & chains.
  • We pretty much always stop for a drink after skiing & don't rush off. The drivers don't booze it up though.
  • Passengers should synchronise withdrivers travel plans, be back on time from skiing, & not order meals when rest are planning to leave.
  • Drivers co-ordinate plans with their fellow drivers.
  • Passengers are normally head counted after skiing by their own driver.drivers make mutual check arrangements among each other. Passengers of a missing /late driver should report the missing skier to other drivers.
  • We don't come back early to unlock vehicles for non skiers.
  • A meal on the way back to Munich is optional, subject to driver - depends if stomach demanding food to digest, plus aching muscles demanding blood to rebuild, may deprive brain of blood supply to concentrate on driving.
  • We probably have other conventions too, which are easier remembered in the snow fields than typing here in Munich

Top Of Page

More Dates

Additional Dates Always Welcome ! (please contact Julian to add more calendar entries, Mostly dates are arranged to try to conform with "Ski Season's Planning Criteria".

Top Of Page

Notes On Rows & Columns In Yearly Calendars

Notes On Columns In Yearly Calendars

  • Type:
    • Down=Down hill,
    • Tour=Ski Tour,
    • Lang=Langlauf=Cross Country.
    • All=All types of skier welcome.
    • Where more than one type, main emphasis is listed first.
  • Skill:
    • Beg=Beginners (ie including absolute beginners),
    • Exp=Experienced.
    • Any=Any level of experience or lack thereof.
  • Organiser: Name of organiser. Click on it for more info.
  • Destination: Ski Organisers please tell me web references(URL) for your Destination Resort, for Ski Map info etc, & I'll make it click-able from the table.
  • Free/ Commercial club trips are organised free (but you still have to pay various lifts & accommodation & petrol etc), but we also list some Semi Commercial Trips: Most of Ken's trips are marked "Semi Commercial". on those the organiser's prime aim is to teach people skiing, for which he offers a commercial package, charges money, & bundles in equipment provision, tuition, accommodation & (I think) lift pass) A few experienced club skiers sometimes join those groups without taking the package.
  • Comment: Odd extra info.

Notes On Rows In Yearly Calendars

  • A row of dashes '-' (or empty boxes) is a date available for an Ski Organiser (unless below a preceeding multi day trip).
  • Trips such as Ken's commercial trips & Peter's Private trip maybe shown in {{brackets}}.

Top Of Page

Ski Season's Planning Criteria

  • The annual ski planning meal enables us to optimise/maximise the amount of ski trips available during the ski season. It was started after we had a dry January one year: the snow was good, but we fumbled the planning, & had no down hill weekend for 3 weeks.
  • We try to maximise the number of full weekends available but get lower turnout if we have adjacent full weekends, so we try to alternate full weekends & day trips on successive weekends.
  • We get fewer weekends if we first ad hoc book the easy to organise single day trips on any random weekend Ski Organisers bid for; so instead it's better to try to schedule the 2 day full weekends trips first, on alternate weekends, & then add the one day trips in between.
  • We try when possible to avoid a full weekend on Fasching's party weekend; we often do a one day trip then, Sunday usually.
  • The timetable needs to account for Christmas & Easter. EG 1 day trips on weekends when accommodation is hard to find, 2 days (or more) when easy.
  • We sometime run 2 trips the same day, EG Langlauf & down hill, but a few Ski Organisers do more than one form of skiing, & don't want to miss out, so sometime we do EG langlauf on Saturday & down hill on Sunday (or vice versa), rather than 2 1 day & none the other day same weekend.
  • Langlauf dates: try: Munich International Ski Club
  • We usually (but not always) manage to avoid EG a 1 day down hill in one resort on the same weekend a 2 day down hill trip in a different resort.
  • We also arrange small groups not officially announced, often at short notice via eg winterised beer gardeners & ski@ ).
  • Hanenkamm date in 2006 clashed with Mayrhofen trip so might be Traffic jams to avoid in future years ?.
  • Top Of Page

Planning Methods of Ski Organisers

  • The schedule used to be organised with identical papers with dates in front of each Ski Organiser at the ski planning meal, for bids for dates & then collated, discussed & dates shuffled to optimise use of weekends. As that was best typed, & as we usually know a few requests in advance, it's helpful to list those too, & as the info will be published on web & email it's convenient to list early tentative plans on the web too. Some years Julian just provides a giant sheet, & all trips are marked up, that system works well with smaller numbers, but problems of wet table & dark restaurants. Torch useful ! In 2004 Julian also had a laptop loaded & ready with the planning table, (which would have made inserting extra mid week trips in particular, rather easier, but then paper was used as more easily review-able by all the group (passing a laptop around among glasses of beer, & plates of food is problematic.
  • Details can be registered on this list by emailing or phoning Julian.
  • These dates are NOT fixed, they're just some initial wishes of some individual Ski Organisers & will likely be changed somewhat when Ski Organisers together at & after the annual Ski Organisers planning meal, when we optimise the season's schedule.
  • First Come First Served ? - No It's Not That Simple !
    • It is not necessarily first come first served for this timetable, neither by email bids nor on the planning night.
    • it seems best to optimise the ski timetable to maximise ski enjoyment & safety etc, for the skiers, not simply to satisfy whichever Ski Organiser managed to bid first by email, or managed to arrive on time for the ski meal.
    • Full weekend ski trips in prime snow time (Jan to mid/late Feb) are considered valuable, not to be messed up by less than experienced Ski Organisers, so it's appreciated if newer Ski Organisers to the group first do one day trips, & smaller 2 day trips out of prime time, until they've shown the group they have the proven organisational ability to extend to reliably & successfully organise large groups in prime snow time. (There's a lot to get right, or wrong, in a full weekend, & only a few optimal dates in a short season, so we can't afford to waste any).
    • "First come" might (or not) be OK for langlauf, which generally is low death/serious injury risk compared to down hill or ski tour.
    • When you get to be standing on a steep mountain, perhaps teaching down hill beginners how to crash properly & avoid broken arm/legs etc, or teaching tourer-s avalanche danger assessment etc, then competence is more important than who made first claim.
    • There's other criteria, equally doubtless skiers will think of & understand them better than non skiers, & be more affected by the decisions than non skiers, so such decisions are best left to skiers !
  • It's optimal if we first try to work out from other constraints, which weekends are best for 1 or 2 day trips, then Ski Organisers choose dates available ?
  • Like to organise a trip yourself? - Pick a free date above & get advice from other Ski Organisers.
  • Date Arbitration/decision etc is by the body of Ski Organisers.
  • Top Of Page

Another Group: Richard Gipps' Ski Tourers group

Another Group: Inter Nations You need to log in to see this page.

Click above, then on "Activity Groups -> # Munich -> # Sports & Leisure -> # Alpine Division -> # Activities "
International business group, pay subscriptions if you want real sports event info, not just Munich drinking venues with entry fees.

Top Of Page

Another Group: Ken Lawler's Short Ski Beginners Group
Ken's group is a Verein (club e.v.). There's numerous of our people there & vice versa. Many good recommendations too, & he does one open trip, no tuition or charges etc for us too. Ken's group provides equipment, beginners training, accommodation & lift tickets for a fee.

Top Of Page

Another Group: Paraski

Paraski, a Yahoo group run by HanZi Field, who took Ken's beginner course in maybe 2002. HanZi went skiing nearly every weekend and was always looking for passengers and drivers to go along. Hanzi also does barbecues in summer, & overlaps with people in our circles. @2013 Paraski seemed inactive. @2016-02 still inactive: last 2 posts in March 2013

Top Of Page

Another Group: Munich International Ski Club (MISC)

One day trips, weekend, long weekend and week long trips. Day trip cost per person in 2004: Members - Eur. 35, Non-members - Eur. 45, Long trips: February 20 - 24 Kranjska Gora, Slovenia, Italy at Easter. 3 - 10 April. Madesima resort.

Entry fee of 10 Euro, & Annual Membership of 30 Euro (when last I looked).

2013 quote: The bus WILL depart at 06:45 so you need to be there for 06:30

Top Of Page

Another Group: Toytown

Another Group: Ski Club Nymphenburg. German speaking. Also has a kids section.

Top Of Page

Another Group: Winter Sport Verein Muenchen e.V. German speaking. Also has a kids section.

Top Of Page

Another Group: Ski Verband Muenchen

Another Group: Alpen- verein

Munich branch of the Deutsch Alpen- verein is in German language, & focuses on Ski Tour, not down hill.

Other Commercial Bus & Train Trips etc

Railway, bus companies and sport shops offer day trips with transport maybe breakfast and lift pass built in. They leave very early in the morning (typically German !) and leave the resort too early as well, even more typically German ! I've never tried them, as I aim to arrive at top of mountain with last lift, maybe admire the view or have a drink, wait for the crowd to clear off, then ski down & have another drink & a cake in a cafe/bar. Forget that relaxed idea if you'r on a commercial German bus.
    From: de/ tagesfahrten/

    Can book with with Sport Scheck tel 54907560 or Sport Scheck Travel Agency 38014151 {Mail from Ken} Email Day trips to Hoch-Zillertal every Wed, Fri, Sat Sun (till 6th of april) . 6:50 from Haupt-bahnhof (in front of Karstadt). Wed/Fri for 34 Euro, Sat/Sun for 41 Euro (prices inclusive return bus trip, ski pass & breakfast) {Mail from Ken}
  • Sport Schuster

    (info 23707299) also offers Tages- fahrten - destinations are announced on the Wed. before, so drop in at Sport Schuster (Marienplatz) and pick up a leaflet and to book. Go to their travel agency on the first floor and ask for the Tages-fahrten - these trips don't make it onto the web site: Prices around 40 Eur. (depending where you go) inclusive return bus trip & ski pass. Bus leaves 07.30 from 'Rinder-markt', behind Sport Schuster, Marienplatz. Book a place, don't just turn up! {Mail from Ken}
  • BRB (Ex BOB), a train)

    Offers the Kombi-Ticket: Transport and ski pass Schliersee-Spitzingsee 33 Euros BayerischZell-Sudelfeld 32 Euros Lengries-Brauneck 31 Euros Tickets In the main hall at the Hauptbahnhof (DB-desk 47 or 49) info: 08024 997171 {Mail from Ken}
  • Big companies such as Siemens & Hypo vereins bank & EPO (European Patent Office) also organise occasional ski trips for employees & freelancers working there. Ask around, your quiet colleague might be a secret ace skier ;-)
  • A lot of UK ski package tours fly in via Munich, It used to be possible, so probably still is, to hook up with some if you make your own way to the airport.
  • Some accommodation places are well know for lively & late night groups , maybe possible to meet others there & try skiing together for a bit.
  • Top Of Page

Odd Random Ski Links

  • Water Ski
  • Zillertal 3000
  • .. mayrhofen Sells hotel beds; might be useful for links.
  • Severe Swaying Ski Lift
    • Video - Storm in Ischgl - Monday 2018-01-22
    • Question:, In such a cabin, Which side is best to sit ? Up or Down ?

      The yachtsman reflex is Upside, to stiffen the cabin back toward vertical, discourage shipping water, & bring more wind on to sail, but more wind pressure might more likely derail cable off the wheels.

      As lighter cabins with no humans in sway more, reducing a manned cabin angle will not reduce chance of a mast collision somewhere else on the cable loop.

      The major danger I guess is not that one's own cabin derails, but that other more exposed cabins dis-rail. I believe the only braking on most cable loops is via the main drive wheels top & bottom. So if enough cabins slip off the pylon/ mast wheels, the length of the loop will increase, the concrete counterweight in bottom station could descend to the base of containing hole, then no friction on base station winding wheel, & the whole loop could rotate back down the mountain, whichever side is heavier. Even worse, the loop might derail off the base wheel.

      What speed cable cars have to slow & stop at I don't know, presumably different maximal wind gust speeds for different things:

      • Unloading cabins coming into the stations: many have a vertical alignment pin or guide underneath that needs to engage.
      • When cabins sway sideways too much, the windward side of the endless loop, cabin verticals gripping the steel rope would strike the wheels mounted on the pylons, cabins would strike masts.
      • Chance of derailment of steel rope from rubber lined steel wheels, is probably mostly a factor of profile of rubber lined wheel, how shallow, & how high the metal rim. IMO rubber is fairly shallow. The twisted wire rope might start to grip & climb the rubber edge of the wheel lining ?
      Presumably empty cabins that sway more provide less wind resistance, but less weight, wonder if derailment would start (but not end with!) empty cabins or occupied ?. I assume just while going over pylon wheels, more weight would be good, but maybe if all the intermediary cabins are empty, less aggregate sideways push. Impossible :-)

      I have very rarely seen lots of concrete weights with steel handles in cable stations, one ready for each cabin; (usually just occasional beer crates, & in the past containers of fuel oil, but diesel driven stations seems increasingly rare.

      Other considerations:

      • Cable de-torsioning & over-torsioning around the base & top drive wheels caused by different angles of cabins hanging in open air & stations.
      • Fraying of rubber wheel liners abraded by spiral cable rotated on to edge of wheel liners.
      • Torsional force around the verticals of cabins that don't have humans balanced, one at front & one at back. Those cable clamps are always rather small just a few cm to take torsional strain if you look closely, the long bits are too support stress fore & aft, not rotational stress.
      Some things to look at in old photos of ski lifts, & take new photos on next ski trip. (Mayrhofen, Feb 2018)
  • Top Of Page

Problems Happen - Be Prepared !

Experienced ski Organisers know things can go wrong, & we try to plan ahead. We also ask trip participants to also keep thinking ahead too, taking personal responsibility, & trying to help organiser where possible. Anticipating the unexpected (& the expected) is what experienced Ski Organisers & skiers do, but no matter how hard we plan, something else may get us ;-) That's not to put you off skiing or organising, (that too can be fun), just that it's easier when people Think & Plan ahead too.

"SKI TRIPS FROM HELL ?" Not Really smiley face icon

(Good phrase for a search engine to catch more skier interest though ? ;-)
Here's some problems this Ski Organiser recalls (from decades of trips, not all on 1 true trip from hell ! (ordered roughly in the order a ski trip happens).
  • Organisation pre start:
    • It gets busy pre departure, this author once organised (unpaid, in his own time) a ski trip with 39 skiers (41 booked, but 2 ill), inc. lots of beginners, & about 13 cars ...
    • Passengers, even car drivers can be unexpectedly ill, a no show at departure point, or car is problematic (doesn't happen much,drivers generally feel responsibility & cancel with organiser even if it has to happen night before, so only a problem for organiser to alert reserve driver, if any).
    • Lack of cars, or passengers for booked cars, lack of snow chains for glaciers, winter tyres, ski racks, inadequate anti-freeze, cars doors locked solid, car break downs. Yes, someone did run out of fuel & various of us nearly have, thats why we carry spare fuel (that passengers then sometimes complain smells & takes space). Yes we've had dodgey batteries (the driver of a car with a good battery & jump leads waits for dodgey car to start). We've had ski racks spring open in transit, luckily no skis took flight.
  • Border, Passports, Austrian currency for Autobahn Pickerl
    • Driver turned back at the border, 'cos of no passport, dodgy car papers, & passenger left with no driver.
    • Car impounded by border police, sudden extra passenger & skis to squeeze into whichever cars if any remain behind the impounded one.
    • Passengers with no Passports. A lone dark Indian face gets noticed best without a passport on a sunny day ;-)
  • Sat Morning: Screen wash jets freeze up on the road, emit ice on screen.drivers can be too mean, & passengers too when they complain that expensive extra petrol money also include screen wash. Is it an optional luxury to see where the vehicle is driving/ sliding ?!
  • Stuck without chains, can't get up
  • Drivers who insisted on using junk cars, & thus having otherdrivers with better cars leave theirs in Munich. One got stuck up top without chains, he & passengers couldn't get down icy road back to valley, hotels & home.
  • Skiing
    • People who forget equipment money & passports to rent equipment.
    • Sat Morning: Snow storm so heavy it takes most of day to drive to Ischgl, then 3 people use 1 afternoon ticket & return to bar & give away ticket to next it's so bad no 4th person will take the free ticket.
    • Chair up gets stuck in a blizzard for maybe an hour up at Hintertux (too high & windy & dangerous to continue movement).
    • Friends you don't even recognise, faces distorted by cold. Again Hintertux.
  • Sat Night After skiing:
    • Injury - worse if it its the driver! Is the car insured for other drivers?
    • Passengers forget which car, or where. Blizzard up at Hintertux rips paper notes off windscreen.
    • Road closure from avalanche danger, skiers stranded in ski boots in bar now closing, no hotels left, no money & passports for hotels either, cars blocked by locked barrier from driving through avalanche endangered road to reach rooms containing normal shoes, clothes, passports, money & beds for the night.
    • Ski drivers & passengers separated, lost from each other, now on different mountains/valley stations, after having been separated by lack of visibility, piste closed by avalanche danger, different speed/ability etc. Lost skiers & missing drivers, can't stick notes to wind screens 'cos the snow ice wind sleet rain & dark defeat paper ink & you, & it's slow walking in ski boots, & the last bus has gone, & taxis are expensive, or no racks, or just not available
    • Sat After Lifts Close, Finkenberg
      • Skiers stuck in dead end valleys, night closing in, hours of hard work ahead: either walking up mountain back to piste at top of mountain (to reach piste to valley) or the same but hours skiing in increasing dark through raw forest. Then dogs start howling. Well, back behind walls & at lower altitudes everyone tells you it must have been valley dogs. When you'r alone up the top of a mountain all people have left 2 hours ago, darker by the minute, you'r entitled to a different guess! Dogs ? maybe. & then down, Passengers &drivers separated & clueless of whereabouts, should rescue services be called, what would they find in the dark, what would it Cost ?!. No mobile phones then (& coverage even now far from overall).
      • Finkenberg End Of Day # 2 Skiers stuck in same dead end valleys, lifts closed, off piste the other way (N end) all the way to valley.
  • Sat after skiing: hunting beds:
    • Lack of hotel rooms
    • Can't book pensions often for 1 night.
    • Never enough single rooms.
    • Fools who were told before trip, Cash, no Cards, then want us all to stay in (or driver to drive them to) an expensive hotel cos they have no cash for B&B.
    • Idiots who even half way up one mountain then down the next hunting for rooms, argue Demand their absolute "Right" to a single room, where no rooms single or double are to be had, (& where if any singles are, usually single drivers are offered them first to ensure a good sleep & safer drive home next day).
    • Can't find where booked pensions are. (Austrian villages number buildings in villages chronologically, according to when the first building was on site, maybe centuries back, maybe an old low numbered building has since been replaced by a new looking building. Street names often don't get used. & They leave Green "Free" signs out when not free.
    • Can't drive to B&B 'cos too steep narrow & icy ! (yes, even too steep for this author's previous powerful car, which had All of: 4 snow chains, winter tyres, 4wheel drive, divide by 2transmission reduction, & turbo - still too steep / slippery (well even if I got up there, was I going to find space to turn, & how was I going to get other party cars up there ? Would I have to spend hours moving multiple car loads of people skis & luggage all up the mountain in my one car ? where would we leave all the other cars ? What if it snowed again overnight ?
    • Hotel rooms stolen by club members not booked on the trip.
    • Sat night (driver decides cold night, not enough anti freeze, set alarm to about 3 AM to get up, go out & run up engine to heat.
  • Sat Night/Sun Morning Mugging (Robbery) of party member .
  • Sun. Afternoon Blizzard : The odd blizzard perhaps with a group of you on a snow slope of 45 degrees, a few miles from human habitation, (skiers car groups are never sorted by ski ability, so ski groups comprise assorted passengers &drivers belonging to car groups of skiers elsewhere on same or loosely adjacent mountains. Visibility about as far as the end of your ski tip ! Needing to stab sticks in snow to see if moving/ drifting. Curious sensory deprivation !
  • Sun. Night Solden pre new lift : Rush to leave car park before dead end glacier tunnel is locked for the night. No time to get chains on. Road down is icier than road up (rained & froze during day). Nothing at all on edge of road. driver scared car might slip sideway off edge. 3 passengers pushing car sideways while driver alone in car drives down! (Solden, before they put in another lift up to the glacier).
  • Sun Morning:
    • Broken rib, broken arm reported to the organiser at breakfast, before 1st coffee, reported by an aggressive fool threatening the organiser to beat him up, because organiser didn't know, wasn't told, & was skiing a different mountain with a different group from a different car yesterday, & this is the first he's heard, no one having reported it earlier, as the injured's friend's took him to hospital & he's been dealt with & quite alright (as he assures us later on his return).
    • Sun. Morning Irate land ladies "You'r the organiser, so who of yours had that illicit unpaid mixed sauna for 2?"
    • Broken/stolen skis boots sticks
  • Sun Night Return
    • People who tell drivers they `must' be driven back up mountain fast to return gear before shop closes, or `must' return early to Munich (no chance! Idiots just cause annoy themselves & all others.)
    • Sun. Night: Chains removed in road lay by, A while later a smell builds, someone had bad food ? Nope, the chains were removed where there was frozen dog excrement , its now melted into the carpet.
    • Border Again!Once we had a dark faced Indian friend who'd forgotten his passport, returning from Austria to Munich in the old days when they checked every car passenger's passport (They still do when they suspend Schengen occasionally for a special event. Even worse, he was a beginner, hired skis there, the other 3 of us had our skis on the roof rack, & customs were often seen to count heads & skis as an easy check.
    • Sun night.: very new car, drives all the way back to Munich, then 1st petrol station off autobahn & inside ring near Giesing, Subaru clutch cable break ! Wow ! Was that luck or what ?
    • Sun night.: 50 KM out from Munich head lamps of new car dim: So driver tells passengers: off with radio, off with heater blower, off with rear de-mister off with headlights, down to side lights & tail lights, & hope there's enough battery drive ignition to get to Munich. Then some idiot passenger complains they're cold & turn on the heater! - No we're all cold ! Do you want car stranded on Autobahn ?
      Turns out later Subaru had used too many cable ties on the earth cable between engine & chassis, no room for wobble, metal fatigue in copper cable.
    • Passenger claiming Sunday morning to have no money to pay hotel or driver's petrol money. Pretence kept up all the way to Munich, till driver said he intended to leave that passenger's new skis locked on roof, & auction them off down the club next Friday at low price to raise petrol money. Miraculously money to pay for hotel & petrol was then found ;-)
    Again, the purpose of the above list is Not to scare you off, it took decades for all of those to happen. But you Should keep alert, planning ahead, & help the organiser where possible. Mentally lazy passengers are a nuisance, think ahead !

    Top Of Page


Driving back to Munich Sunday nights can be tiring after skiing hard,maybe a bad nights sleep if sharing a twin room, & worse, a meal in the mountains driving home, (this author doesn't eat in the mountains now Sunday evening, better to be hungry & awake). If maybe sleepy passengers are not holding up their end of conversations keeping driver awake it can be worse. (Your driver may invite you to have a good contentious debate to keep hm awake, or play devils advocate, play along ! ;-)

Alternately, for about 10 Euro you can buy an mp3 player that powers of a car cigarette lighter socket It takes SD cards & USB sticks up to 2Gig, Before the ski trip one can download free documentary & comedy programmes etc from eg to help one keep awake driving Try also

Ski Avalanche People Search Detectors

tiscover bed booker for Zillertal

Non Skier's Unsolicited Opinions Not Wanted

Years ago, we were part of a largely non skiers club that died. The grey box below was to deter various non skier committee members etc, who used to periodically dump ignorant criticism on Ski Organisers. A list of some problems we've survived was written to show them just how clueless of ski organising they were, to encourage them Not to push their ignorant opinions. We're long rid of those people, but stories of some `problems' & events still entertains occasionally over a beer
Each time there's a skiing problem, one receives a few un-solicited & usually un-informed comments from non skiers who seem to all too often make the ignorant assumption (sub-conscious or conscious) that organising a ski trip should be based on similar principles to those used to organise other events most of which are of a far more trivial nature, EG trip to a Munich restaurant. Non skiers often don't bother asking nearly enough questions before issuing their frequently un-informed opinions, & it gets tedious trying to politely explain the many things they hadn't realised or bothered to ask. It's of course possible for non skiers, & skiers of limited experience to have useful ideas, & for those we're grateful, but please ask _lots_ of questions before you allow an idea to grow to an opinion formed in ignorance, that could likely cause annoyance if thrust un-asked on Ski Organisers.
  • Get Experience:
    • Learn to ski (any type of ski) ! - Your perceptions may change.
    • If you've tried Langlauf & weren't scared ...
    • Try down hill, its faster & more dangerous,
    • Try Ski Tour. - sometime slower than down hill, can be more dangerous though.
    • Realise not all off piste is [equally] dangerous
    • Read some analysis of avalanche angles, layers, chunky layers, & lower sliding surfaces.
    • Try walking up some mountains in summer you've skied down the winter before. Consider the tracks & gradients & erosion.
    • Go as a skier on lots of trips.
    • Graduate from Bus trips where it's easy & all Must conform, to private car trips, where there's more to co-ordinate & organise, & accommodation to find etc.
    • Organise some Ski Trips, start on 1 day trips, easier.
    • Organise complete ski weekends, needing to find accommodation up & down the valley etc.
    • Organise beginners trips
    • Keep doing it for 10 to 20 years for a club. Remember Ski Organisers mistakes (yours & others), logistical contingencies & accidents & problems your skiers have been caught out by in the mountains, & learn from them, & try to plan to avoid them etc.
    • Encourage other Skiers to both help out on big trips & also organise other trips
    • ... And now the hard bit ... ;-)
    • Sigh when non skiers dump unsolicited opinions on you about ski matters !
  • A few of us are experienced Ski Organisers who have done most or all the above list.

Ski trips, particularly down hill/tour & full weekend trips are much more complex & potentially dangerous & need much more forward planning than simple club events such as the trivial booking of a meal in a city Restaurant, that many experience as a club `Event', that the ignorant sometimes [un]consciously draw parallels with, when forming opinions on how all club events should be organised & who is `entitled' to what.

Non skiers would be wiser to ask a Lot more questions before forming an opinion, or worse, pushing ignorant un-solicited opinions on experienced ski Organisers.


  • Contact Ski Organisers well in advance for weekend trips (deposits often required).
  • All routes & destinations subject to snow conditions and car seats available, snow & road conditions, & Ski Organisers decisions.
  • Events can be relocated, postponed or cancelled if necessary without notice, for instance due to snow or traffic conditions, lack of enough participants or transport, or indisposition of Ski Organisers.
  • Check your e-mail, pay attention to announcements at the Friday. Stammtisch, and always confirm booking with the Ski Organiser beforehand.
  • Don't just turn up (unless the Ski Organiser specifically advertises that is acceptable), as there may well be no space for you.
  • If you must cancel, formally cancel direct with the Ski Organiser so he/she knows. No-shows who muck up our car & or hotel sharing plans are not welcome on subsequent trips, Ski Organisers mention names of no shows to fellow Ski Organisers.
  • Weekend trips often require advance booking and deposits paid, which we & your friends drink at your expense, if you fail to show up without adequate warning.
  • Events are organised by volunteers. Participation is entirely at your own risk and on your own responsibility. Organisers, drivers, & fellow skiers etc disclaim All responsibility - if you do not accept that, do not come.
  • Top Of Page


  • Format & Content in whole & in parts, Copyright Julian Stacey, Munich 2001-2013.
  • Permission granted to make links to this & other pages.
  • Top Of Page

Altitude & Temperature

Glacier Skiing

Hintertux, Sölden, Stubai, Pitztal

Body Protection

American footballers wear shoulder pads... 30 years back I had racing ski trousers with soft padded knees round to hips. (But not a hard outer shell back then). Elderly non skiers have hip protectors, so I wonder if high speed professional slalom skiers might be able to use similar technology for knee or hip protectors ? Analogy: skiers didn't use to wear helmets. Cricketers wore no face protectors etc.

Emergency Phone Numbers

Emergency Phone Numbers told me at Nederle near Kappl near Ischgl 2018-01-24 at
  • 112 European Notruf Innsbruck
  • 122 Fuer-Wehr
  • 133 Polizei Not-fall Im Tal
  • 144 Berg Rettung


PS A clip from email: I've done a lot of skiing, & plan to do more. Competitive racer skiers can wear their knees out by 25 years old Most recreational skiers dont do real racing: (when knees act like shock absorbers), I've done a very little semi racing earlier in life (skiing a mountain, not just a slope as fast as possible, but it's damn dangerous, only think of it when slopes are empty & visibility is good, & your muscles will be screaming at you, so are you really in control to emergency stop ? most probably not, even more probably not if you ve stuck a ski cam on your helmet. I've not skied whole mountains non stop in decades, too dangerous, the laws of Kinetic energy are non negotiable. (Most normal recreational ski injuries will be twists & breaks I imagine, not worn out knee linings from absorbing repetitive bump shocks.).
See Also: ../bike/#knees & ../walk/#knees

Stolen VotesBerklix.Net Computer AssociatesDomainsApache: Web ServerFreeBSD: Operating System